Author Topic: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps  (Read 15729 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2017, 12:11:49 PM »
Vlad the Disingenuist,

For the same reason "God" is - the arguments used to validate both claims are crap.
But the arguments in reply 33 are just bad arguments for, well, anything..........You are merely using the words God and leprechauns to illustrate that. That is 'Badness' by association not a proof of crapness.

Also I believe that ''leprechauns are ridiculous because they are like God who is ridiculous because they are like Leprechauns'' is a circular argument n'est pas?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 12:18:52 PM by The Good, The Vlad and the Ugly »

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2017, 01:59:18 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
So leprechauns are ridiculous because they are like God who is ridiculous because God is like Leprechauns who are ridiculous?

A fiver to anyone who can find a logical path from what I said ("For the same reason "God" is - the arguments used to validate both claims are crap") to Vlad's misrepresentation of it. 
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2017, 02:04:50 PM »
Vlad the Confusonist,

Quote
But the arguments in reply 33 are just bad arguments for, well, anything..........You are merely using the words God and leprechauns to illustrate that.

By George, could it be that you're finally grasping the point?

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That is 'Badness' by association not a proof of crapness.

Er, the "badness" (or ridiculousness) of the outcome is a pretty good indication that the argument that leads to it is false. 

Quote
Also...

Again you have no "also" when your first effort has collapsed.

Quote
...I believe that ''leprechauns are ridiculous because they are like God who is ridiculous because they are like Leprechauns'' is a circular argument n'est pas?

Yes it would be, which is why no-one has made it.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:16:09 PM by bluehillside »
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SusanDoris

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2017, 03:56:03 PM »
Even as an incurable optimist, I think it is unlikely that Vlad has finally understood the argument!
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2017, 04:58:00 PM »
To date we have a list of bad arguments.
Then we have a statement from Bluehillside

Any argument that fits both God and leprechauns is a bad argument.

His list of bad arguments is,er, a list if bad arguments.....for anything, since the words God and Leprechauns could be substituted by any other two.

Then when asked, after years of saying that God is as ridiculous as Leprechauns, why leprechauns are ridiculous he says it's because they are like God.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2017, 05:09:08 PM »
Vlad the Misrepresentationist,

Quote
To date we have a list of bad arguments.
Then we have a statement from Bluehillside

Any argument that fits both God and leprechauns is a bad argument.

It’s “leads to” rather than “fits”, and the argument precedes the examples you asked for to illustrate it but OK.

Quote
His list of bad arguments is,er, a list if bad arguments.....for anything, since the words God and Leprechauns could be substituted by any other two.

True, albeit irrelevantly so. That the claim "leprechauns" is more commonly held to be ridiculous than the claim "God" adds weight to the point though. 

Quote
Then when asked, after years of saying that God is as ridiculous as Leprechauns, why leprechauns are ridiculous he says it's because they are like God.

And he finishes with one of his favourite misrepresentations. I have NOT said that “leprechauns are ridiculous…because they are like God” at all. What I have said is that, when ARGUMENTS LEAD EQUALLY TO “God” and to leprechauns, that’s a good indication that they are bad arguments

Not sure why you keep lying about that, but that’s a matter for you.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 05:12:48 PM by bluehillside »
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2017, 05:13:33 PM »
I have NOT said that “leprechauns are ridiculous…because they are like God” at all. What I have said is that, when ARGUMENTS LEAD EQUALLY TO “God” and to leprechauns, that’s a good indication that they are bad arguments
.
So what then is ridiculous here God, Leprechauns or the arguments (which we know to be bad without the invocation of God or Leprechauns)?

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2017, 05:31:23 PM »
Vlad the Disingenuist,

Quote
So what then is ridiculous here God, Leprechauns or the arguments (which we know to be bad without the invocation of God or Leprechauns)?

Why are you doing this to yourself?

Veeeery slowly now:

1. Some (you included) make a claim "God" that you think to be not ridiculous.

2. We (presumably) agree that the claim "leprechauns" on the other hand is ridiculous.

3. Sometimes people people attempt arguments in logic to validate claim 1.

4. Sometimes too however those argument function equally whether they're used to validate conjecture 1. or conjecture 2.

5. Unless you're prepared to think that those arguments actually do validate both conjectures (ie, neither are ridiculous), your only option is to determine that the arguments themselves must therefore be wrong.

6. Thus the maxim: "When an argument leads equally to "God" and to leprechauns it's probably a bad argument" it's useful because it saves the trouble of deconstructing the argument to work out why it's wrong.

Do you get it now?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 06:07:41 PM by bluehillside »
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God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2017, 07:01:32 PM »
Yes it's about Bad arguments and a restatement that Leprechauns are ridiculous with no attendant justification.


Sebastian Toe

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2017, 07:10:19 PM »
Yes it's about Bad arguments and a restatement that Leprechauns are ridiculous with no attendant justification.
They are apparently real.
There are people who genuinly believe in them.
They are protected under EU Law.
www.irishcentral.com/travel/leprechauns-are-now-protected-under-new-european-law-see-videos-117791804-237763791

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2017, 07:15:57 PM »
Vlad the Confused or Mendacious? You Choose,

Me:

Quote
Why are you doing this to yourself?

Veeeery slowly now:

1. Some (you included) make a claim "God" that you think to be not ridiculous.

2. We (presumably) agree that the claim "leprechauns" on the other hand is ridiculous.

3. Sometimes people people attempt arguments in logic to validate claim 1.

4. Sometimes too however those argument function equally whether they're used to validate conjecture 1. or conjecture 2.

5. Unless you're prepared to think that those arguments actually do validate both conjectures (ie, neither are ridiculous), your only option is to determine that the arguments themselves must therefore be wrong.

6. Thus the maxim: "When an argument leads equally to "God" and to leprechauns it's probably a bad argument" it's useful because it saves the trouble of deconstructing the argument to work out why it's wrong.

Do you get it now?

VtCoM?YC:

Quote
Yes it's about Bad arguments and a restatement that Leprechauns are ridiculous with no attendant justification.


That'll be a "no" then.

Let me know if it ever sinks in though won't you?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2017, 08:13:47 PM »
They are apparently real.
There are people who genuinly believe in them.
They are protected under EU Law.
www.irishcentral.com/travel/leprechauns-are-now-protected-under-new-european-law-see-videos-117791804-237763791
Thanks Seb

I intended this thread to be all things Leprechaun

For people who think Leprechauns are real but can't explain why as much as for people who think they are ridiculous and won't explain why.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2017, 08:25:06 PM »
Vlad the Disingenuist,

Quote
For people who think Leprechauns are real but can't explain why as much as for people who think they are ridiculous and won't explain why.

Why would anyone else need to do that latter as I've already done it for you?

As you seem to be suffering from short term memory loss, here it is again: The conjecture "leprechauns" is ridiculous because the arguments used to validate it are crap, and they remain crap when they're used to validate "God".

Suggest you write this on a Post-it note and stick to your screen to help you the next time your memory fails.

You're welcome.   
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2017, 08:40:38 PM »
Vlad the Disingenuist,

Why would anyone else need to do that latter as I've already done it for you?

As you seem to be suffering from short term memory loss, here it is again: The conjecture "leprechauns" is ridiculous because the arguments used to validate it are crap, and they remain crap when they're used to validate "God".

Suggest you write this on a Post-it note and stick to your screen to help you the next time your memory fails.

You're welcome.   

Keep Calm Hillside...And Enjoy Leprechauns

jeremyp

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2017, 08:46:20 PM »
But the arguments in reply 33 are just bad arguments for, well, anything

Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Halleeeee-lujah

Haaaaaaallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Halleeeee-lujah

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Gordon

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2017, 08:50:38 PM »
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Halleeeee-lujah

Haaaaaaallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Halleeeee-lujah

Perhaps Vlad, at long last, has got a Handel on something.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2017, 08:57:08 PM »
Perhaps Vlad, at long last, has got a Handel on something.
Only that I think you lot are Bach-ing up the wrong tree.

Top of the morning to you.

Gordon

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2017, 09:00:25 PM »
Only that I think you lot are Bach-ing up the wrong tree.

Top of the morning to you.

Don't know if you noticed Vlad: but when you posted this it is definitely evening-time, it is dark outside and bedtime is looming large.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2017, 09:02:29 PM »
Don't know if you noticed Vlad: but when you posted this it is definitely evening-time, it is dark outside and bedtime is looming large.
Top of the Evening to you.

Gordon

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2017, 09:08:13 PM »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2017, 08:48:48 AM »
Vlad the Disingenuist,

Why would anyone else need to do that latter as I've already done it for you?

As you seem to be suffering from short term memory loss, here it is again: The conjecture "leprechauns" is ridiculous because the arguments used to validate it are crap, and they remain crap when they're used to validate "God".

Suggest you write this on a Post-it note and stick to your screen to help you the next time your memory fails.

You're welcome.   
Hillside

I'm not having a cow over this and suggest you don't either.
I'm taking it that List/reply number 33 are the arguments.

firstly they are bad arguments for anything....
Secondly it is debateable whether they are used.
Thirdly they are not an exhaustive list of arguments.

They don't actually tell us anything about ridiculousness(or God or Leprechauns for that matter) which is to do with emotion....after all mention Leprechauns and you get almost unanimous smiles. Mention God and you might get titters from a small part of the survey, some scuffles in another, mature handled emotion among the sensible.

A sense of ridicule is after all a subjective thing.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2017, 01:59:04 PM »
Vlad the Irrelevantist,

Quote
I'm not having a cow over this and suggest you don't either.
I'm taking it that List/reply number 33 are the arguments.

Then, as so often, you (or your cow) “take it” wrongly. The actual argument is that, when arguments can be used equally to validate “God” and leprechauns, then those arguments are probably bad ones. The list in Reply 33 is merely illustrative of the types of argument that can do that.

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firstly they are bad arguments for anything....

True but irrelevant. See above.

Quote
Secondly it is debateable whether they are used.

Actually it isn’t, but it’s irrelevant in any case. See above.

Quote
Thirdly they are not an exhaustive list of arguments.

That’s not what illustrative lists are for (perhaps you missed the: "...and, wearily, on and on they go" at the end of the list?), and it’s irrelevant in any case. See above.

Quote
They don't actually tell us anything about ridiculousness(or God or Leprechauns for that matter) which is to do with emotion....after all mention Leprechauns and you get almost unanimous smiles. Mention God and you might get titters from a small part of the survey, some scuffles in another, mature handled emotion among the sensible.

Highly debatable, but irrelevant in any case. The only relevant point here is that, when arguments validate with equal facility “God” and conjectures everyone already thinks to be ridiculous, then those arguments are probably bad ones. 

Quote
A sense of ridicule is after all a subjective thing.

As is your conjecture “God”, but irrelevant in any case. The only relevant point here is that, when an argument validates a conjecture that everyone already thinks to be relevant (leprechauns being but one of many possible examples) and “God” equally, then it’s probably a bad argument.

Why you keep ducking and diving in response to this with your list of irrelevances is anyone’s guess, but there it is nonetheless. While your preferred modus operandi is lying and dissembling rather than attempting arguments of any kind, whenever you do feel like doing the latter if you ask yourself, “does this argument work just as well for leprechauns?” you’ll save yourself and others time by not bothering with it.

You’re welcome.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 05:34:01 PM by bluehillside »
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SwordOfTheSpirit

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2017, 05:27:59 PM »
#33

What is relevant though – and this is the bit you never get around to dealing with – is that “God” and leprechauns are epistemically the same when the same argument produces either outcome with equal facility. What that argument is doesn’t matter at all: “You can’t disprove god/leprechauns, therefore god/leprechauns (the NPF); “Other people agree with me about god/leprechauns” (argumentum ad populum); “I don’t like the idea of no god/leprechauns (argumentum ad consequentiam); “I prayed to god/leprechauns for a promotion and got the job, therefore god/leprechauns” (post hoc ergo propter hoc); “I know god/leprechauns exist because it says so in a book, god/leprechauns wrote the book (circular reasoning) and, wearily, on and on they go.
This has to go down as arguably the most ignorant lack of understanding of religious belief ever.

bluehillshite of the highest order!
I haven't enough faith to be an atheist.

Shaker

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2017, 05:29:41 PM »
And rebuttal of bhs's entirely logical points came there none.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Leprechaunodammerung-Twilight of the little chaps
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2017, 05:34:02 PM »
#33
This has to go down as arguably the most ignorant lack of understanding of religious belief ever.

bluehillshite of the highest order!
This has to go down as arguably the most ignorant lack of understanding of fallacious arguments, ever.

WordoftheSprout more like!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein