Revelation 1-22

[ippy]

My pleasure. 

Love it

ippy

[Sassy]

Says one whose own posts would be highly amusing if they weren't so silly!

Do you actually have anything positive or informative to say?
Well, best not to say anything till you do.

[Sassy]

Funny you know Sass I look at these pages with wonder when I see how effective the indoctrination of various posters have taken upon themselves staring in the face of reality and rejecting reality.

I'm, I suppose your average Jo and manage to live a roughly normal life and feel I would like to think when I leave this world hopefully by my actions, I may have in some way left it a better place than when I entered, you see much like the majority of ordinary people.

All of the above without giving any religion a serious thought as practical solution to the worlds problems, apart from being astounded here how I read the religious utterances of otherwise sensible people, religion plays no part in my very normal family life, you could be the same as me Sass and have more time to do positive things much better than pointless things such as religious practises. 

Kind regards ippy

What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it?  Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart. I am sorry you feel as you do. I do not measure my life by such thoughts and I do not judge others by my own thoughts. Truth is that life is about making a difference because we care. Try not thinking of it as religious codes of practice. Try seeing it as a living reality in the presence of a gracious and loving God who loves all...EVEN YOU.

[Sassy]

All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.

All in your head... You use it as an excuse and we see it does not work if true and you are living proof.
That kind of behaviour makes people oppressed, bitter, weak and an attacker of all things good. Calling evil good and good evil.

You never really knew the living God or the real love. The selfless love like Christs which despite everything the people did to him to make him suffer still prayed for forgiveness for those who hurt and put him to death. Love in a perfect example of forgiving others when it has cost so much. No one is perfect like Christ when it comes to faith and Love. But being hurt does not give anyone a license to hurt others.

[floo]

Do you actually have anything positive or informative to say?
Well, best not to say anything till you do.

And you do?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.

Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.

It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.

[Shaker]

What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it?  Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart.

Some of us manage that without all the daft baggage and accoutrements. Travel light.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

All too often the ones who give it large about their 'true' faith, and threaten people with dire consequences if they don't convert to their version of it, do nothing to help others in a practical way. As I have said many times, the sort of person you are is much more important than the religion you espouse.

I don't think the retraction of the welfare state in the face of a tide of people proclaiming their Godlessness bears your theory out at all.

It is commonly claimed that atheists are out helping when Christians are on their knees......I say that's rubbish. Atheists are ranting rather than forming big movements for social and mutual help.
The New Atheist preoccupation with religion as opposed to social charity has been noted by writers like
Karen Armstrong who has noted little interest in social charity from the four horsemen.

[ippy]

The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.

Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.

It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.

Another demonstration that you still haven't got the slightest idea of what secularism is all about ?

ippy

P S Look up Orbis, Medicine without frontiers and you can send money to the NSS UK to support the Rohingya refugees and to protect them from religious persecution.

[Shaker]

The big secular charitable programme the welfare state is in retreat as several excuses are and were made for its retraction. It was not ever thus.

Secular humanism in the U.K. Has taken a turn to individualistic darwinianism rather than a secular socialist societies. As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army nor any mass movement willing to move in to teach and nurse in deprived areas like the British marxists of the thirties.

It's the Darwinian appeal of the selfish gene I suppose.

If the welfare state is in retreat that can be laid squarely at the door of the Conservative and Unionist Party - you know, those who don't believe in it and never wanted such a thing in the first place - rather than your woeful misunderstanding of secularism (not to mention your Mary Midgley-level grasp of the selfish gene).

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If the welfare state is in retreat that can be laid squarely at the door of the Conservative and Unionist Party - you know, those who don't believe in it and never wanted such a thing in the first place - rather than your woeful misunderstanding of secularism

....and that people are voting for them and the people who don't vote because they don't mind the damage they cause.......one has to wonder why charity and social welfare are in retreat when there is a wave of non religious who like Floo are keen to point out the lack of charity in Christians.I suppose what we are seeing is no concomitant sense of social responsibility with an increase in non religion.

[Sebastian Toe]

As far as I know there is no atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army ..

...what would be the atheist equivalent of of this?



We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

www.salvationarmy.org.uk/salvation-army-doct

[Shaker]

....and that people are voting for them and the people who don't vote because they don't mind the damage they cause.......one has to wonder why charity and social welfare are in retreat

Are they? Like your alleged co-religionist "Crashes and" Burns you're asserting this rather than providing any evidence for it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

(not to mention your Mary Midgley-level grasp of the selfish gene).

Selfish gene provided mood music for Thatcherism and New Atheist Alf Garnettism chimes with certain noises from UKIP.

[Shaker]

Selfish gene provided mood music for Thatcherism and New Atheist Alf Garnettism chimes with certain noises from UKIP.

I see you're in charge of the Assertatron while "Crashes and" is away.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

...what would be the atheist equivalent of of this?



We believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

www.salvationarmy.org.uk/salvation-army-doct

We believe in determinism and the selfish phenotype, and because Darwinism is such a neat theory Then whose to say social Darwinism isn't valid

[Sebastian Toe]

We believe in determinism and the selfish phenotype, and because Darwinism is such a neat theory Then whose to say social Darwinism isn't valid

Bzzz. Fail. Eternal damnation not accounted for.

[Owlswing]

Religion must be a pretty powerful thing in your consciousness for someone who believes no god exists?  Why do you allow it to run your life and affect your emotions within yourself and the way you relate to others? Seems only you have the problem with religion and it is with yourself, alone.

Honestly Sassy you pontificate upon things you haven't got a clue about!

I use "Jesus wept" in the same way as an Army Sergeant Major would - as a polite euphemism - instead of saying "you are the biggest (insert expletive of your choice) on the (insert expletive of your choice) planet!

I have said before that my belief in MY GODS and GODDESSES is a matter of FAITH not FACT - and I have said on many occasions that you need to learn that YOUR God and his beknighted son are also matters of FAITH and not FACT.

[Owlswing]

Funny you know Sass I look at these pages with wonder when I see how effective the indoctrination of various posters have taken upon themselves staring in the face of reality and rejecting reality.

I'm, I suppose your average Jo and manage to live a roughly normal life and feel I would like to think when I leave this world hopefully by my actions, I may have in some way left it a better place than when I entered, you see much like the majority of ordinary people.

All of the above without giving any religion a serious thought as practical solution to the worlds problems, apart from being astounded here how I read the religious utterances of otherwise sensible people, religion plays no part in my very normal family life, you could be the same as me Sass and have more time to do positive things much better than pointless things such as religious practises. 

Kind regards ippy

I, in the firm faith that the deities with whom I and the members of my Coven communicate exist as part of our belief as a matter of faith not fact, I have no proof that they exist, I do however have faith, have absolutely no problem with someone, like yourself, who has no problem whatsoever with dismissing my faith as bollocks along with all other "religious faiths".

No problem whatsoever.

I would have a problem if you turned, for instance, "Sassy" on me and started to condemn my belief because of your conviction that yours is fact and mine fiction.

[ippy]

What is more positive in a persons life than helping the homeless, the starving and the poor. My God leads me in paths which benefit others. How will your life have benefited others when you leave it?  Reality is... religion is just a practice of rituals to you. In reality to me it is a way of life changed by love from a God of love who places care for others as a genuine act from the heart. I am sorry you feel as you do. I do not measure my life by such thoughts and I do not judge others by my own thoughts. Truth is that life is about making a difference because we care. Try not thinking of it as religious codes of practice. Try seeing it as a living reality in the presence of a gracious and loving God who loves all...EVEN YOU.

Like I said about indoctrination, no one needs to be religious to be able to help or be of benifit to our fellow man.

I can see a social side of regular meetings of friends, nothing wrong with any of that.

You give me the impression of someone much like the rest of us here on the forum, basicly decent and care about others without being over the top about it, I think you would be more or less the same person I have described without believing in the magical, mystical, superstition based beliefs bereft of any evidence that might have supported them.

I'm not judging you, but there are better things to do than wasting time on any way of life, that in your case you think it's the truth where you nor anyone else has the smallest shred of evidence that could in any way support any of the magical, mystical, superstitional based parts that the whole of these beliefs hang on.

In turn I feel sorry for you that you hang your life on such a load of bronze age ignorent nonsense, (ignorent in respect of things like not even knowing the Earth orbits the Sun).

You seem to suggest it's necessary to have a religious belief to be able to care for others and you really do think it's you that's living in reality, I'll assume you're joking.

Kind regards ippy.

[ippy]

I, in the firm faith that the deities with whom I and the members of my Coven communicate exist as part of our belief as a matter of faith not fact, I have no proof that they exist, I do however have faith, have absolutely no problem with someone, like yourself, who has no problem whatsoever with dismissing my faith as bollocks along with all other "religious faiths".

No problem whatsoever.

I would have a problem if you turned, for instance, "Sassy" on me and started to condemn my belief because of your conviction that yours is fact and mine fiction.

Can't see a problem there or anything on its way either, can't see that I have any belief convictions either, if there were some kind of evidence that pointed to any of these magical mystery land beliefs I might have stood up and paid them some attention but that's unlikely to happen.

Ippy

[Owlswing]

Can't see a problem there or anything on its way either, can't see that I have any belief convictions either, if there were some kind of evidence that pointed to any of these magical mystery land beliefs I might have stood up and paid them some attention but that's unlikely to happen.

Ippy

Yeah - but you do not insist, as some of the theists do, that I believe as you do because what I believe does not gel with what you believe!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Bzzz. Fail. Eternal damnation not accounted for.

I don't quite know what you are getting at.
If someone hates God eternally how is that not something to be eternally condemned?

Similarly what business or purpose would a wicked person have or want in heaven?

[Sebastian Toe]

I don't quite know what you are getting at.
If someone hates God eternally how is that not something to be eternally condemned?

Similarly what business or purpose would a wicked person have or want in heaven?

What do you mean by "wicked person"?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What do you mean by "wicked person"?

I've already defined that in my post.
Also if someone continues to wish harm on those in heaven why should they be allowed to do it?
If they are not allowed to inflict themselves and their desires why would they want to be in heaven?

Orthodox Christians believe all pass into the presence of God and that experience will either be heaven or hell.

What Christians never propose unlike some atheists is that the innocent are condemned.