Ryanair cancels Christmas in Scotland

[Nearly Sane]

One thing that the story has made clear that I hadn't really appreciated is quite how big Ryanair are. Market capitalisation of nearly 20bn Euros, the fifth biggest airline in terms of passengers and the biggest airline in terms of international passengers.

[Harrowby Hall]

Where does Ryanair stand in terms of passenger/miles?

[Sebastian Toe]

Where does Ryanair stand in terms of passenger/miles?

I don't know but in terms of passenger/smiles, the answer might be quite low!

[Walter]

Where does Ryanair stand in terms of passenger/miles?

at the end of the runway?

[jeremyp]

I think there is a basic assumption that service includes the actual flight, and suggesting that people have no right to complain when there is no flight is odd

By “complain” I meant whine about it on Internet forums. This is orthogonal to your right to complain to their airline when they don’t provide the service they contracted for.

Of course, you even have a right to whine on Internet forums if you like (and I never suggested that you don’t), just don’t expect me to flock to your cause. Ryanair is well known for treating its customers with contempt. They cut costs to the bone gambling that people will still flock to them because they are cheap. But you get what you pay for. Cheap service means bad service. If you don’t understand that, you do not have my sympathy.

[Walter]

By “complain” I meant whine about it on Internet forums. This is orthogonal to your right to complain to their airline when they don’t provide the service they contracted for.

Of course, you even have a right to whine on Internet forums if you like (and I never suggested that you don’t), just don’t expect me to flock to your cause. Ryanair is well known for treating its customers with contempt. They cut costs to the bone gambling that people will still flock to them because they are cheap. But you get what you pay for. Cheap service means bad service. If you don’t understand that, you do not have my sympathy.

c'mon , you could have got a few more clichés in there , surely.

[Harrowby Hall]

   ...    Ryanair is well known for treating its customers with contempt.  ...  But you get what you pay for. Cheap service means bad service   ...

As someone who uses Ryanair two or three times a year, I would be interested to know when you last used the company?

How would you differentiate Ryanair from British Airways on short-haul services?

[ProfessorDavey]

How would you differentiate Ryanair from British Airways on short-haul services?

Well for a start if BA cancels a flight they will book you onto an alternative as they are required to do by law. Ryanair are failing to do that and telling passengers on cancelled flights that the passenger has to pay the extra for an alternative flight and claim off their travel insurance.

[Walter]

Well for a start if BA cancels a flight they will book you onto an alternative as they are required to do by law. Ryanair are failing to do that and telling passengers on cancelled flights that the passenger has to pay the extra for an alternative flight and claim off their travel insurance.

we only want emotionally charged opinions here , no facts please 

[ProfessorDavey]

we only want emotionally charged opinions here , no facts please 

By the way I think BA are pretty useless too, but at least they comply with their legal responsibilities.

And I know this for a fact as my wife had the most unfortunate experience of having her BA flight to Edinburgh cancelled last Friday morning. She was going to a funeral and missed it. However BA offered her a seat on a later flight on the day. No good as it would have got her to Edinburgh long after the funeral had finished and just in time to check in to return. But at least they offered to book on another flight, and did so automatically.

[Harrowby Hall]

By the way I think BA are pretty useless too, but at least they comply with their legal responsibilities.

Well, BA did not comply with their legal responsibilities with me in respect of  extraordinary conditions on 24 December 2013 at Gatwick. As it happens I did not want financial compensation, just an apology for their lack of concern for the needs of their customers.

[ProfessorDavey]

Well, BA did not comply with their legal responsibilities with me in respect of  extraordinary conditions on 24 December 2013 at Gatwick. As it happens I did not want financial compensation, just an apology for their lack of concern for the needs of their customers.

No idea whether they broke their regulatory requirement in your case. However, worth noting that the current rules don't apply if the reason that the flight is cancelled is clearly outside the control of the airline, such as weather conditions or air traffic control disputes etc.

[ProfessorDavey]

Well, BA did not comply with their legal responsibilities with me in respect of  extraordinary conditions on 24 December 2013 at Gatwick. As it happens I did not want financial compensation, just an apology for their lack of concern for the needs of their customers.

I've no idea how you were treated by BA on that day - presumably badly.

However a quick bit of googling reveals the problem that day to have been massive power outage due to flooding - clearly not something that an airline can be held responsible for. As such their responsibilities would be much more limited under the regulations, and certainly wouldn't extend to a requirement to transfer passengers to a different flight operated by another carrier.

And surely you can see that there is a world of difference between a flight being cancelled due to a completely unforeseen power outage at the airport and the deliberate decision by a company to cancel thousands of flights.

[Harrowby Hall]

One day earlier, weather conditions resulted in the cancellation of my flight as I was boarding the aircraft. BA provided accommodation and rebooked me for 18.00 the following day. So far so good.

The following morning Gatwick North Terminal was closed due to an underground switching room being flooded. In the ensuing chaos just about all EasyJet flights were cancelled. Some other carriers were able to switch their services to the unaffected South Terminal. I was told that my flight, a domestic service, may be slightly delayed. I eventually boarded the flight at 22.20 - a delay of more than four hours. At no time was I given any indication of the possible delay the only instruction to passengers was: "Keep your eyes on the Departures screen." This meant that I could not contemplate having any food because I might miss the boarding call. There were no BA staff anywhere in the departure lounge, only screens. There were two armed police officers (one rather bad tempered) wandering around an area containing mainly families and middle aged and elderly people trying to get to their relatives for Christmas.

The EU flight delay regulations (which date from 2004) could have provided maximum compensation for delays of more than four hours. When I made my claim I was told that I was not eligible because the aircraft scheduled for my flight had suffered damage and had to be repaired. As I said, I did not want compensation, merely an acceptance that customer care had been appalling. Since this was Christmas Eve it is inconceivable that short-haul aircraft (Boeing 737, Airbus A219) would not be available since the following day would see most such services shut down. Had I have been insistent, I could have presented my case via the CAA.

I later was asked to report my observations to the House of Commons Transport Select Committee. I did so and some of my observations were referred to in the Committee's report on Winter Transport Resiliance with respect to events at Gatwick Airport.

[ProfessorDavey]

One day earlier, weather conditions resulted in the cancellation of my flight as I was boarding the aircraft. BA provided accommodation and rebooked me for 18.00 the following day. So far so good.

The following morning Gatwick North Terminal was closed due to an underground switching room being flooded. In the ensuing chaos just about all EasyJet flights were cancelled. Some other carriers were able to switch their services to the unaffected South Terminal. I was told that my flight, a domestic service, may be slightly delayed. I eventually boarded the flight at 22.20 - a delay of more than four hours. At no time was I given any indication of the possible delay the only instruction to passengers was: "Keep your eyes on the Departures screen." This meant that I could not contemplate having any food because I might miss the boarding call. There were no BA staff anywhere in the departure lounge, only screens. There were two armed police officers (one rather bad tempered) wandering around an area containing mainly families and middle aged and elderly people trying to get to their relatives for Christmas.

The EU flight delay regulations (which date from 2004) could have provided maximum compensation for delays of more than four hours. When I made my claim I was told that I was not eligible because the aircraft scheduled for my flight had suffered damage and had to be repaired. As I said, I did not want compensation, merely an acceptance that customer care had been appalling. Since this was Christmas Eve it is inconceivable that short-haul aircraft (Boeing 737, Airbus A219) would not be available since the following day would see most such services shut down. Had I have been insistent, I could have presented my case via the CAA.

I later was asked to report my observations to the House of Commons Transport Select Committee. I did so and some of my observations were referred to in the Committee's report on Winter Transport Resiliance with respect to events at Gatwick Airport.

Thanks for sharing and sounds like an awful experience which could have been handled far better by BA.

That said you have confirmed two things - first that the primary problem was, as I thought, flooding leading to power loss - clearly something not in the control of BA. And in those circumstances the obligations on an airline are reduced compared to a situation completely of the airline's own making, as is the case for Ryanair.

Secondly that BA rebooked you onto a later flight in the first cancellation situation due to bad weather. This is what Ryanair are claiming they have no obligation to do telling passengers it is for them to rebook and claim any additional costs from their travel insurance. Ryanair only came clean with passengers about their rights when forced to do so by the CAA under threat of legal action.

[Rhiannon]

Monarch have gone under... Ryanair to follow?

[Nearly Sane]

Monarch have gone under... Ryanair to follow?

Makes it less likely for ryanair to go. Their share price is up 3% oj this news

[ProfessorDavey]

Makes it less likely for ryanair to go. Their share price is up 3% oj this news

That seems likely - Ryanair has lost a competitor so that is likely to shore up their business somewhat.

Whether it is sufficient may depend on the costs associated with complying with the CAA's ruling and the possibility of legal action.

[Harrowby Hall]

One commentator I heard suggested that Monarch's departure would  help Ryanair solve its pilot problems.

Ryanair use Boeing 737, Monarch Airbus A320 so any pilots would have to be converted.

[jeremyp]

As someone who uses Ryanair two or three times a year, I would be interested to know when you last used the company?

How would you differentiate Ryanair from British Airways on short-haul services?

British Airways has enough pilots not to have to cancel thousands of flights.

[jeremyp]

Talking of pilots. Here is one explaining how it is with Ryanair.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/furious-ryanair-pilot-calls-lbc-on-working/

[floo]

Talking of pilots. Here is one explaining how it is with Ryanair.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/furious-ryanair-pilot-calls-lbc-on-working/

If that is true it is a wonder any pilot would ever consider working for that company.