Another shooter Stateside

[Rhiannon]

Breaking news but this doesn't sound good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

[Rhiannon]

Unconfirmed reports are that three gunmen shot dead a hotel security guard and then fired automatic weapons from the hotel windows into the crowd. Sounds like a pre-planned attack and on an audience that presumably would mostly be white.

[floo]

Another terrible tragedy. When will the US realise that a society which permits all and sundry to own guns is less safe than others?

[jeremyp]

Well the most important thing is that Laura Robson is safe.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/41468025

/sarcasm

[jeremyp]

Another terrible tragedy. When will the US realise that a society which permits all and sundry to own guns is less safe than others?

Some of them would argue that owning guns actually makes them more safe in some ways e.g. from their own government. Frankly, I think they are deluded, but hand wringing won't get it done and neither, unfortunately will crimes like this.

[Rhiannon]

At least fifty people have died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've already heard witnesses saying that if they'd had their guns on them they could have had a chance of taking the gunman out.

[Outrider]

Another terrible tragedy. When will the US realise that a society which permits all and sundry to own guns is less safe than others?

There are a number of countries around the world with high levels of gun-ownership - though not quite to the levels of the US - and they don't even begin to approach the levels of gun-death and gun-violence that we see in the US. Whilst gun ownership provides opportunity, it does so in a number of place, but it's the attitude towards gun-ownership from Americans that's different.

I'm not immersed in it enough to make a solid determination, but all of the talk that gets reiterated elsewhere from the US is about the 'right to bear arms', which is a right in other places that don't seem to shout about it in the same way. What I don't hear enough of is the responsibilities of gun-ownership, but I don't know if that's because I'm not there or because it's not happening.

Either way, at some point even the Americans have to realise that their experience of gun death isn't the same as everyone else's.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

At least fifty people have died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've already heard witnesses saying that if they'd had their guns on them they could have had a chance of taking the gunman out.

Which given latest reports seems unlikely.

[Maeght]

At least fifty people have died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've already heard witnesses saying that if they'd had their guns on them they could have had a chance of taking the gunman out.

The guy was shooting from a window of a hotel opposite so not very likely. Terrible event.

[floo]

At least fifty people have died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

I've already heard witnesses saying that if they'd had their guns on them they could have had a chance of taking the gunman out.

And possibly taking other innocent people out whilst they were about it!

[Rhiannon]

Which given latest reports seems unlikely.

Of course, but it explains something of the mindset as to why  people won't easily relinquish the right to bear arms.

[Maeght]

Of course, but it explains something of the mindset as to why  people won't easily relinquish the right to bear arms.

It does, something which needs to be addressed.

[Harrowby Hall]

   ...    all of the talk that gets reiterated elsewhere from the US is about the 'right to bear arms', which is a right in other places that don't seem to shout about it in the same way.

This is an institutionalised misrepresentation of the Constitution. There was no standing army and so the founding fathers considered that if the populous owned their own guns they could be easily organised into a militia.

[SusanDoris]

What a terrible situation. And then that ghastly Trump comes along with prayers asking god to comfort people. Why doesn't he wonder why the God - which I do wonder, cynically, If he pretends to believe in - allowed this to happen.

[floo]

I bet Trump is disappointed that the terrible massacre doesn't appear to be related to Islamic terrorism!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Horrific incident. Just a thought though about the numbers. Every day on average 93 Americans die from gunshots. The Las Vegas incident measured on a one-day basis (59 deaths) was a 63% increase on normal expectations. Over a week it was a 9% increase; a month, 2.4%; a year, 0.17%.

In other words, in terms of the underlying issue of gun-related killings on an annualised basis the statistical impact of Las Vegas is negligible. If, say, the 59 deaths were spread across the year the daily increase would barely register. Understandably it's the huge concentration on this incident that's brought to the fore again discussions about gun control in particular, but every day 93 American who got up in the morning won't go to bed in the evening.   

[Rhiannon]

Apparently Hawaii has strict gun control laws and has 2.6 deaths/100,000 population.

[floo]

When our eldest daughter was training to be a primary school teacher in the early 90s, she did part of her teaching practise in the US. One of the school rules stated that none of the children were to bring their rifles to school with them!

[ippy]

In the past the Hollywood films quite obviously glamorised smoking, as a part of promoting the product, we also hear about product placement within the film making industry and various manufacturers pay largish sums to gain as much exposure of their products as possible, I doubt they would be paying for these things if they didn't sell the goods placed.

When I look at all of the various films around today where the actors are striking their, mostly macho, poses with guns and it's not just the odd film here and there, even films like 'Star Wars' where the ray guns are a substitute, I suppose I could be accused of imagining things if I was to think there were some N R A funding the glamorising of guns and the use thereof within the U S film industry?

I don't say glamorising guns is the major part of the Americans problem with guns but I'm sure it's a part of their problem that shouldn't be ignored.

ippy

[jeremyp]

I don't say glamorising guns is the major part of the Americans problem with guns but I'm sure it's a part of their problem that shouldn't be ignored.

Well we get to see all the same films as they do. Why don't we have the same gun problems?

[Shaker]

Well we get to see all the same films as they do. Why don't we have the same gun problems?

No culture of widespread gun ownership and nowhere near as easily available, presumably.

[Walter]

No culture of widespread gun ownership and nowhere near as easily available, presumably.

YEAH, cover your arse with your 'presumably' you wuss, the only person I have any respect for on this board is jeremyp, at least he says it as it is !!!!

[Shaker]

Run along Wally, the grownups are talking.

[ippy]

Well we get to see all the same films as they do. Why don't we have the same gun problems?

Yes and that's why I said I thought it may well be a part of their, the Americans, problem, as far as I know just for starters it's a five years plus prison sentence if a U K citizen is found by the authorities to have in their possession a hand gun without the appropriate licence and as Shaker says differing cultural reasons between the U K & the U S too.

ippy

[jeremyp]

No culture of widespread gun ownership and nowhere near as easily available, presumably.

I agree, so the films glamorising guns are probably not responsible for the situation in the USA or at least only a small part of the problem.