Faith vs blind faith

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Trollboy,

Give me strength…IT’S NOT A FUCKING THEORY!!!

What two things?

Of course not, and I told you why back in Reply 246. “Theistic criteria” involve the supernatural, something “outside time and space” etc. None of that can be adduced necessarily from a hypothesis about a simulated universe (or for that matter about lots of simulated universes). 

It’s already “gone away” inasmuch as the arguments you attempted have been falsified. 

No, you’re actually just the lying troll of this forum, which is a different matter.

Alright theory then.
And if you'd seen my reply to Wigginhall a simulator fulfils any requirement of the supernatural, outside time and space? How is outside the universe not supernatural? How is  being totally independent of the universe not supernatural?, How do we know in what type of universe this type is the simulation? Probability dictates it isn't identical to ours.

I seem to be remaining with definition and you are getting into the ineffability of the supernatural Ha Ha Ha. You are merely tiddling about at the edges since the links with theism including the supernatural are already established

It looks as if you are avoiding all of this. And that is more the point I am trying to make.

Nothing your saying helps atheism does it? A defection by the greats on this scale?

Go figure.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ippy,

Still no answer, just as you say?

Not far from where I live is an abandoned railway line called the Flitch Way that we cycle along sometimes. The tracks have long since been removed but lots of the Victorian infrastructure is still there, including a station with food served from the old booking hall and tables and chairs set out along the platform. 

The people there enjoying their beans on toast and mugs of tea will catch a train sooner than Vlad answers a question.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Alright theory then.
And if you'd seen my reply to Wigginhall a simulator fulfils any requirement of the supernatural, outside time and space? How is outside the universe not supernatural? How is  being totally independent of the universe not supernatural?, How do we know in what type of universe this type is the simulation? Probability dictates it isn't identical to ours.

I seem to be remaining with definition and you are getting into the ineffability of the supernatural Ha Ha Ha. You are merely tiddling about at the edges since the links with theism including the supernatural are already established

It looks as if you are avoiding all of this. And that is more the point I am trying to make.

Nothing your saying helps atheism does it? A defection by the greats on this scale?

Go figure.

Why are you doing this to yourself? What perverse pleasure does typing this unremitting idiocy give you?

[bluehillside Retd.]

So anyway...

...can anyone here actually suggest the difference between religious faith that is and isn't "blind"? 

[Sebastian Toe]

Confusion, panic, hot flush, palpitations, involuntary sphincter contractions, then shitting of whale.

Crap answer.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Crap answer.

But you can't deny I was feeling a little funny.

[ippy]

ippy,

Not far from where I live is an abandoned railway line called the Flitch Way that we cycle along sometimes. The tracks have long since been removed, but lots of the Victorian station infrastructure is still there, including one with food served from the old booking hall and tables and chairs set out along the platform. 

The people there enjoying their beans on toast and mugs of tea will catch a train sooner than Vlad answers a question.

I assume the beans on toast are served silver service, and the spoon is on a silver chain unlike the string in most of the cheep places I use.

I think Vlad knows he can't answer because of some investment he has in his supposed beliefs, he is finding it hard to give way in print to his investment in fallacies, maybe this would effect his social life in some way, but then I'm trying to be charitable.

Then there are cases like A B as well? Where did all of his lot come from?

I'm thinking of taking Sparky seriously, recently had the kitchen rewired with those double usb sockets, so I'm dynamic electrical energy ready for it.

Know the place well by the way, Mmmmm baked beans on toast.

Do you remember the road across the runway at that well known airport the one with traffic lights to hold up drivers when there were planes taking off, long gone now?

ippy

[bluehillside Retd.]

ipster,

I assume the beans on toast are served silver service, and the spoon is on a silver chain unlike the string in most of the cheep places I use.

I think Vlad knows he can't answer because of some investment he has in his supposed beliefs, he is finding it hard to give way in print to his investment in fallacies, maybe this would effect his social life in some way, but then I'm trying to be charitable.

Then there are cases like A B as well? Where did all of his lot come from?

I'm thinking of taking Sparky seriously, recently had the kitchen rewired with those double usb sockets, so I'm dynamic electrical energy ready for it.

Know the place well by the way, Mmmmm baked beans on toast.

Do you remember the road across the runway at that well known airport the one with traffic lights to hold up drivers when there were planes taking off, long gone now?

Yes I do - that dates you (and me). I was was reminded of it a couple of years back when I flew to Gibraltar. This was a pedestrian crossing though - the red "Do Not Go" hand appeared, 30 seconds later a Boeing 737 shot past, then the green hand appeared with a "Thank You" and across we walked. A bit surreal I thought.     

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think Vlad knows he can't answer because of some investment he has in his supposed beliefs, he is finding it hard to give way in print to his investment in fallacies, maybe this would effect his social life in some way, but then I'm trying to be charitable.

Then there are cases like A B as well? Where did all of his lot come from?

I'm thinking of taking Sparky seriously, recently had the kitchen rewired with those double usb sockets, so I'm dynamic electrical energy ready for it.

Know the place well by the way, Mmmmm baked beans on toast.

Do you remember the road across the runway at that well known airport the one with traffic lights to hold up drivers when there were planes taking off, long gone now?

ippy

Can you list your most urgent questions Ippy?
I think you could be mistaking ''answers'' for ''answers I want to here''.
 

[ippy]

Can you list your most urgent questions Ippy?
I think you could be mistaking ''answers'' for ''answers I want to here''.
 

What would be the point of listing anything I might want to ask of you?

ippy

[floo]

Vlad have you so little to do that you have to change your username every five minutes?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad have you so little to do that you have to change your username every five minutes?

It's called living in the fast lane.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

It's called living in the fast lane.

Said the hedgehog.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11/simulated-world-elon-musk-the-matrix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/04/26/we-have-a-term-for-that-neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-design/

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vladd,
Vlad,

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11/simulated-world-elon-musk-the-matrix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/04/26/we-have-a-term-for-that-neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-design/

"Lisa Randall is the voice of reason who says she thinks the question is only interesting if we have a way to test it. You go, Lisa Randall. That’s how a scientist should think, and she finds the whole argument hilarious."

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vladd,
Vlad,

"Lisa Randall is the voice of reason who says she thinks the question is only interesting if we have a way to test it. You go, Lisa Randall. That’s how a scientist should think, and she finds the whole argument hilarious."

...........and?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

...........and?

And you've "assented" to an argument that's "hilarious", then mischaracterised it, then decided it leads to "God", then decided to worship that outcome.

That's a quadfecta of wrongness.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

And you've "assented" to an argument that's "hilarious", then mischaracterised it, then decided it leads to "God", then decided to worship that outcome.

That's a quadfecta of wrongness.

Hillside you were the one insisting it was a hypothesis ''Hypothesis is a Hypothesis is a Hypothesis'' I think was how you put it.

I mentioned previously to you on this matter that a scientific hypothesis has to be testable.

I also told you that the rightness or wrongness of this was not my purpose which was to demonstrate that of two identical things antitheists will reject the one marked God even  though they are identical. That I move is God phobia since it can only be the label that stirs up unreasonable feelings. I was thus able walk through De Grasse Tyson's hypothesis, identical to theistic claims and somehow OK under the package of so called science.

I take it you will now be ripping down all your posters of that Boyband The Antitheist Multiversers
who had a hit a couple of years ago with ''Let's push the multiverse to settle the fine tuning problem''

Wasn't their lead singer Sean Carroll who you had a bit of a crush on a while back? 

[wigginhall]

But they are not identical.   How is an extra-terrestrial alien like God? 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But they are not identical.   How is an extra-terrestrial alien like God?

I fucking hope you mean an intelligent one able to create a universe(ours) it isn't dependent on.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Hillside you were the one insisting it was a hypothesis ''Hypothesis is a Hypothesis is a Hypothesis'' I think was how you put it.

Yes, because you kept calling it a “theory” when it’s no such thing.

Remember?
 

I mentioned previously to you on this matter that a scientific hypothesis has to be testable.

Wrong again. It has to be testable (and tested) if it’s to become something more than a hypothesis. Until that happens, a hypothesis it remains.   

I also told you that the rightness or wrongness of this was not my purpose which was to demonstrate that of two identical things antitheists will reject the one marked God even  though they are identical.

Keep digging. A hypothesis is an idea or a proposal that may or may not in due course be tested and thereby validated or discarded. “God” on the other hand is a claim of fact. There’s nothing “identical” about them at all.

That I move is God phobia since it can only be the label that stirs up unreasonable feelings.

Wrong again. See above.

I was thus able walk through De Grasse Tyson's hypothesis, identical to theistic claims…

It’s no such thing. See above.

…and somehow OK under the package of so called science.

?

I take it you will now be ripping down all your posters of that Boyband The Antitheist Multiversers
who had a hit a couple of years ago with ''Let's push the multiverse to settle the fine tuning problem''

?

Wasn't their lead singer Sean Carroll who you had a bit of a crush on a while back?

?

[wigginhall]

If Tyson had suggested that there are supernatural aliens, who out of their immense love, created universes out of nothing, we might be getting closer to theism.   But I think he was speculating about the power of computers!   In other words, that computers might become so powerful that they can simulate a universe, in a rather Matrix-like way.     

Vlad has to misrepresent this, of course, as he does many things.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Wiggs,

If Tyson had suggested that there are supernatural aliens, who out of their immense love, created universes out of nothing, we might be getting closer to theism.   But I think he was speculating about the power of computers!   In other words, that computers might become so powerful that they can simulate a universe, in a rather Matrix-like way.     

Vlad has to misrepresent this, of course, as he does many things.

Agree with all that, only for the analogy to work I'd also amend "suggested" to "asserted", "insisted" or similar.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Wiggs,


Quote
If Tyson had suggested that there are supernatural aliens, who out of their immense love, created universes out of nothing, we might be getting closer to theism.   But I think he was speculating about the power of computers!   In other words, that computers might become so powerful that they can simulate a universe, in a rather Matrix-like way.     

Vlad has to misrepresent this, of course, as he does many things

Agree with all that, only for the analogy to work I'd also amend "suggested" to "asserted", "insisted" or similar.

Sorry Wiggs and Hillside, when De Grasse Tyson suggests a simulated universe he suggests an intelligent creator of a universe, outside that universe, not dependent on that universe he is not only close to theism he has arrived!..........Just ask PZ Myers.

Another dilemma. You like NDG Tyson but you're a bit partial to PZ Myers too. There is only one way to find out.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Sorry Wiggs and Hillside, when De Grasse Tyson suggests a simulated universe he suggests an intelligent creator of a universe, outside that universe, not dependent on that universe he is not only close to theism he has arrived!..........Just ask PZ Myers.

Why do you misrepresent and lie so much?

First, if you’d bothered to read it you’d know that the the PZ Myers article actually buries you:

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/04/26/we-have-a-term-for-that-neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-design/#ixzz4ukjnQMB8

Second, not for one moment does he say that NDGT has "arrived at theism". Here’s his actual conclusion:

“I also have to wonder if this is a general property of physicists, that they think they know so much that the only people they can imagine having a conversation about unverifiable, untestable, undetectable, hypothetical, imaginary foundational properties of the universe is a group of their fellow physicists (with one token philosopher).

Congratulations. They’ve discovered that they have something in common with theologians.”

Notice that “something in common”? He’s not saying that Tyson has arrived at theism at all – just that the arguments he’s attempting are as stupid as those of theologians.

Epic fail. Just epic.

Another dilemma. You like NDG Tyson but you're a bit partial to PZ Myers too. There is only one way to find out.

The former tried a poor argument, the latter called him on it. So?