Faith vs blind faith

[ippy]

ippy,

That's what "atheism" means.

For me I prefer to be referred to as a non-religious person.

I don't go about denying that the I believe in the empty ideas of others, as far as I know this god believing lot haven't even managed to gather any evidence to support these rather obviously man made ideas about gods etc.

I have never denied my belief in unicorns, because I've never thought about them as a part of reality, so there's no reason for me to deny them, they're something that's not there for me to be able to disbelieve in, sorry Blue, there's no such thing as a unicorn it's just a mythical winged horse.

Having said that I don't find it that difficult to live with being referred to with that misnomer atheist.

Hoover instead of vacuum cleaner.

Brainwashed instead of indoctrinated

Stereo instead of car radio

Bit of rain instead of a drop of rain

Atheist instead of non-religious

They're all technically incorrect everyday usages, but hey life's too short. 

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Why do you misrepresent and lie so much?

First, if you’d bothered to read it you’d know that the the PZ Myers article actually buries you:

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/04/26/we-have-a-term-for-that-neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-design/#ixzz4ukjnQMB8

Second, not for one moment does he say that NDGT has "arrived at theism". Here’s his actual conclusion:

“I also have to wonder if this is a general property of physicists, that they think they know so much that the only people they can imagine having a conversation about unverifiable, untestable, undetectable, hypothetical, imaginary foundational properties of the universe is a group of their fellow physicists (with one token philosopher).

Congratulations. They’ve discovered that they have something in common with theologians.”

Notice that “something in common”? He’s not saying that Tyson has arrived at theism at all – just that the arguments he’s attempting are as stupid as those of theologians.

Epic fail. Just epic.

The former tried a poor argument, the latter called him on it. So?

Hillside. Simulation theory is not just yellow margarine tub ''I can't believe it's not theism''....It's gold foiled full dairy Anchor theism. Have a nice day.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Hillside. Simulation theory is not just yellow margarine tub ''I can't believe it's not theism''....It's gold foiled full dairy Anchor theism. Have a nice day.

And just like a good firework display, he saved his biggest whopper 'til last.

[Maeght]

How are aardvarks capable of simulating universes? When did that happen? We've never created one anywhere near the sophistication of our own universe?........What a potty suggestion.

Aardvarks in the simulated universe are different from those in the real universe outside of the simulation.

Why are you happy around the word zeus and specially pleading the awfulness of God.

Where have I said that?

The point is the Creator of the universe, whatever you call it has to have characteristics of the Abrahamic God or even a divine pantheon.

Why?

I'm wondering if you are heading towards we don't know but it can't be the God of the bible.

No. I haven't said anything of the sort.

Also did you read what I put about Bostrom's windows?

Yes.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

1 Aardvarks in the simulated universe are different from those in the real universe outside of the simulation.

Concerning aardvarks. Interesting contribution to simulation theory from you IMHO.
Concerning  Zeus could Zeus have created a simulation? What? you think he's some kind of Aardvark or something

[Sassy]

...apparently there's a difference.

Could someone have a go at explaining what it might be please?

Thanks.

Faith is to think and act on the basis of what we know of God and trusting him not to let us down.
It is based on what we know about God.
Blind faith is trusting in God when there is no precident in our situation and it looks bleak. It is about trusting God has our best interest at heart whatever the outcome and it will work to our good.


Joseph had blind faith. Though he was continually being brought down trapped in slavery, false accusations of rape and imprisoned he never gave up trusting God. Even when there seemed no reason to believe or hope for better he believed God
had a plan for his life.

So blind faith is trusting like Job and Joseph, when life isn't everything God promised it to be.

King James Version
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Blind faith persists when all apparent hope seems lost in a situation. It focuses on God and not the situation.

That is my take on it..

[floo]

Faith is to think and act on the basis of what we know of God and trusting him not to let us down.
It is based on what we know about God.
Blind faith is trusting in God when there is no precident in our situation and it looks bleak. It is about trusting God has our best interest at heart whatever the outcome and it will work to our good.


Joseph had blind faith. Though he was continually being brought down trapped in slavery, false accusations of rape and imprisoned he never gave up trusting God. Even when there seemed no reason to believe or hope for better he believed God
had a plan for his life.

So blind faith is trusting like Job and Joseph, when life isn't everything God promised it to be.

King James Version
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Blind faith persists when all apparent hope seems lost in a situation. It focuses on God and not the situation.

That is my take on it..

No one actually KNOWS anything about god, it is all a matter of conjecture and belief.

[Sassy]

No one actually KNOWS anything about god, it is all a matter of conjecture and belief.

So why start a thread yourself asking "Does God speak to you?"
If you cannot discuss matters or have nothing to offer by way of an 'argument' then perhaps you should give the religious topics a miss. You have nothing to bring to the discussion.

[floo]

So why start a thread yourself asking "Does God speak to you?"
If you cannot discuss matters or have nothing to offer by way of an 'argument' then perhaps you should give the religious topics a miss. You have nothing to bring to the discussion.

And what exactly have you ever brought to any of the discussion on this forum, apart from sassology, which is your own version of the faith, not mainstream Christian?

[Sebastian Toe]

OK Faith is personal trust in an encountered personal God..... Blind faith is a term I've only heard atheists use in the place of faith.

Blind faith is trusting in God when there is no precident in our situation and it looks bleak. It is about trusting God has our best interest at heart whatever the outcome and it will work to our good.


Joseph had blind faith. Though he was continually being brought down trapped in slavery, false accusations of rape and imprisoned he never gave up trusting God. Even when there seemed no reason to believe or hope for better he believed God
had a plan for his life.

So blind faith is trusting like Job and Joseph, when life isn't everything God promised it to be.

King James Version
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Blind faith persists when all apparent hope seems lost in a situation. It focuses on God and not the situation.

That is my take on it..

Vlad, meet Sassy.


I dont recall anyone calling Sassy an atheist before.

Maybe you can explain yourself?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

Faith is to think and act on the basis of what we know of God and trusting him not to let us down.
It is based on what we know about God.
Blind faith is trusting in God when there is no precident in our situation and it looks bleak. It is about trusting God has our best interest at heart whatever the outcome and it will work to our good.

But if "what we know of God" is also a faith belief, what makes that faith not "blind" too?

What in other words makes you think you "know" even that there is a god at all but for personal faith? 

[Sassy]

Sassy,

But if "what we know of God" is also a faith belief, what makes that faith not "blind" too?

You can speak only as an atheist.  I think it makes clear what Vlad was referring to.
Vlad and myself, who have faith 'see' and 'understand' what you cannot from the point of faith and truth.
Unless you have experienced God, you cannot possibly understand the true nature of faith is seeing.

What in other words makes you think you "know" even that there is a god at all but for personal faith?

There lies in the separation... the word 'think' it isn't about what we think we know.  It is about what believing Gods words reveal to the person who has faith in God.  As you have no faith nothing can be revealed to you. It is not about 'thinking' it is about acceptance, belief and experience.

[ippy]

Faith is to think and act on the basis of what we know of God and trusting him not to let us down.
It is based on what we know about God.
Blind faith is trusting in God when there is no precedent in our situation and it looks bleak. It is about trusting God has our best interest at heart whatever the outcome and it will work to our good.


Joseph had blind faith. Though he was continually being brought down trapped in slavery, false accusations of rape and imprisoned he never gave up trusting God. Even when there seemed no reason to believe or hope for better he believed God
had a plan for his life.

So blind faith is trusting like Job and Joseph, when life isn't everything God promised it to be.

King James Version
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Blind faith persists when all apparent hope seems lost in a situation. It focuses on God and not the situation.

That is my take on it..

Why do you expect people to accept knowledge you claim to have about your idea of a he, she or it thing you refer to as god when you have zero evidence that would substantiate this assumed knowledge you claim to have about this so called he, she or it god figure that without evidence, can only be assumed to reside within your imagination?

ippy

[ippy]

You can speak only as an atheist.  I think it makes clear what Vlad was referring to.
Vlad and myself, who have faith 'see' and 'understand' what you cannot from the point of faith and truth.
Unless you have experienced God, you cannot possibly understand the true nature of faith is seeing.



There lies in the separation... the word 'think' it isn't about what we think we know.  It is about what believing Gods words reveal to the person who has faith in God.  As you have no faith nothing can be revealed to you. It is not about 'thinking' it is about acceptance, belief and experience.

How can you possibly know you've experienced this god of yours?

ippy

[floo]

You can speak only as an atheist.  I think it makes clear what Vlad was referring to.
Vlad and myself, who have faith 'see' and 'understand' what you cannot from the point of faith and truth.
Unless you have experienced God, you cannot possibly understand the true nature of faith is seeing.



There lies in the separation... the word 'think' it isn't about what we think we know.  It is about what believing Gods words reveal to the person who has faith in God.  As you have no faith nothing can be revealed to you. It is not about 'thinking' it is about acceptance, belief and experience.

All you have is belief, not actual knowledge!

[Owlswing]

You can speak only as an atheist.  I think it makes clear what Vlad was referring to.
Vlad and myself, who have faith 'see' and 'understand' what you cannot from the point of faith and truth.
Unless you have experienced God, you cannot possibly understand the true nature of faith is seeing.

So can any one of us who is pissed out of his fucking wits on a Saturday night - or any other night for that matter!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

You can speak only as an atheist.  I think it makes clear what Vlad was referring to.
Vlad and myself, who have faith 'see' and 'understand' what you cannot from the point of faith and truth.

As you put “see” and “understand” in inverted comas, that’s fair enough – lots of people believe in lots of things as articles of faith, and they too think they “see” and “understand” truths about those beliefs.

Unless you have experienced God, you cannot possibly understand the true nature of faith is seeing.

But there you’ve gone wrong. The question then is, if not for personal faith, what makes you think you have “experienced God”?

And if it is a belief that rests on personal faith, what makes that faith any less “blind” than anyone’s else’s faith in anything else?

There lies in the separation... the word 'think' it isn't about what we think we know.  It is about what believing Gods words reveal to the person who has faith in God.  As you have no faith nothing can be revealed to you. It is not about 'thinking' it is about acceptance, belief and experience.

How did you jump just then from thinking something is true to it actually being true? Faith gives you the former, but surely the latter requires something other than just faith doesn’t it for the belief to be validated?

[Sassy]

Why do you expect people to accept knowledge you claim to have about your idea of a he, she or it thing you refer to as god when you have zero evidence that would substantiate this assumed knowledge you claim to have about this so called he, she or it god figure that without evidence, can only be assumed to reside within your imagination?

ippy

Who and where do I say I expect people to accept any knowledge I claim to have about God?  Surely, it is common sense that if a person seeks knowledge they inspect and search all avenues regarding their subject. As you cannot feel the pain of another or see through their eyes you cannot make accurate assumptions as to what they actually feel and see. You have to take their word. It is the same with many aspects of everyday human life. The point is being humble enough to see your own eyes and feelings are not really the only proof you have to experience the truth others experience but you do not.

[Sassy]

How can you possibly know you've experienced this god of yours?

ippy

Personally, he answers me.

He has answered prayers and delivered us many times from many situations.
When asked he has provided the impossible.
The impossible is not something we can create for ourselves.

[Sassy]

All you have is belief, not actual knowledge!

WRONG. I have actual knowledge from experience.

[Sassy]

So can any one of us who is pissed out of his fucking wits on a Saturday night - or any other night for that matter!

Your choice of alcoholic spirits is your own personal choice and for that matter nothing to do with God.
Alcohol does not resemble not can it compete with the experience of God.
If you cannot answer in relation to the actual contents of a post, do you think discussing matters you are not experienced in is actually a wise move (with or without the liqeur)?  You get aggressive and potty mouthed when you cannot give an answer which actually shows a balanced thought out argument. Maybe you should refrain from drinking on a Saturday night if it leads you to write the above.

[Maeght]

Personally, he answers me.

He has answered prayers and delivered us many times from many situations.
When asked he has provided the impossible.
The impossible is not something we can create for ourselves.

Honest question Sassy, if God chooses to deliver you from many sutuations why did  God let you get into the situation in the first place?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

WRONG. I have actual knowledge from experience.

How do you know that experience validated your belief "God"?

[Sassy]

Sassy,

As you put “see” and “understand” in inverted comas, that’s fair enough – lots of people believe in lots of things as articles of faith, and they too think they “see” and “understand” truths about those beliefs.

I acknowledge a world and experience the things you may not look into. Sometimes we do have to look beyond what we individually believe is the obvious to find truths which are not so.

But there you’ve gone wrong. The question then is, if not for personal faith, what makes you think you have “experienced God”?

And if it is a belief that rests on personal faith, what makes that faith any less “blind” than anyone’s else’s faith in anything else?

Experience... If we have experienced Gods presence how do you refer back to personal faith without acknowledging that we actually know what the presence of God feels like? I am not sure you can actually lose your virginity and go back to knowing what it was like before as if it never happened. It is experienced and the once the unknown has now become the known you cannot return to unknowing it.

How did you jump just then from thinking something is true to it actually being true? Faith gives you the former, but surely the latter requires something other than just faith doesn’t it for the belief to be validated?

The Word of God, the Holy Spirit and the teachings of Christ all validate the presence of God.
You see we don't jump we experience the truth of God keeping his promises.  The way to God is plain but people like yourself never seek it.  Your disbelief won't allow you. Your pride in your own beliefs and what you feel will not allow you. Who really is ruled by their feelings and not by what is actual truth?  Christians have a love of truth and so do most who come to God as having been really strong and ardent atheists.  I believe tactics do not play in the reality of God. Only truth.

[Shaker]

In 2008 an international collaboration of scientists created what was then determined to be the roundest object in the world: http://tinyurl.com/n9aaxef

It has lost the crown to the most circular thing in the world:

The Word of God, the Holy Spirit and the teachings of Christ all validate the presence of God.

Take that, sciencey scientismist scienceists!