Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Rhiannon]

I don’t object to men hitting on women, or indeed the opposite, or men hitting on men, or women on women. Sometimes being hit on can be fun.

The harassment scandal is about men in positions of power hitting on women and men who are in a position where saying no has implications for their career and even their safety. The scandal is about a culture of silence that protects predators. This is about men not taking no for an answer. This is about rape and abuse. Not being hit on.

[Aruntraveller]

I don’t object to men hitting on women, or indeed the opposite, or men hitting on men, or women on women. Sometimes being hit on can be fun.

The harassment scandal is about men in positions of power hitting on women and men who are in a position where saying no has implications for their career and even their safety. The scandal is about a culture of silence that protects predators. This is about men not taking no for an answer. This is about rape and abuse. Not being hit on.

Yes that sounds about right to me Rhi. When I think back to the days of my youth and the bars I used to go into.....well let's put it this way - if you weren't hit on you were very disappointed!

[Nearly Sane]

I don’t object to men hitting on women, or indeed the opposite, or men hitting on men, or women on women. Sometimes being hit on can be fun.

The harassment scandal is about men in positions of power hitting on women and men who are in a position where saying no has implications for their career and even their safety. The scandal is about a culture of silence that protects predators. This is about men not taking no for an answer. This is about rape and abuse. Not being hit on.

That seems to me to be what the letter itself says. I think it over emphasizes the possible cases where people are being hit on rather than assaulted and I think the idea that persistence is ok is simplistic but if that is the impression some people have of what's happening, I don't think they should be branded as 'sick' for raising it.

[floo]

It appears that what was actually meant is not easy to determine. Being chatted up never did it for me, I hated it! Fortunately my husband never chatted me up that just isn't him, which is probably why we got on.

[Rhiannon]

That seems to me to be what the letter itself says. I think it over emphasizes the possible cases where people are being hit on rather than assaulted and I think the idea that persistence is ok is simplistic but if that is the impression some people have of what's happening, I don't think they should be branded as 'sick' for raising it.

I don't agree with the letter if it is right that it claims that there is a 'witch hunt'. Again witch hunts happen against those who aren't in a position to defend themselves. And persistence isn't 'ok'. But there is definitely a discussion that needs to be had and this letter isn't 'sick'.

Part of the fun of being a woman for me is being flirted with, and dating involves someone making a move at some point. This should be able to happen in an environment where both men and women are free to say no.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't agree with the letter if it is right that it claims that there is a 'witch hunt'. Again witch hunts happen against those who aren't in a position to defend themselves. And persistence isn't 'ok'. But there is definitely a discussion that needs to be had and this letter isn't 'sick'.

Part of the fun of being a woman for me is being flirted with, and dating involves someone making a move at some point. This should be able to happen in an environment where both men and women are free to say no.

I think it depends what is meant by persistence, but it's not a message that I think works well as it seems to indicate that a no can be ignored.

[floo]

I think it is good that it is all coming out into the open now. For far too long men seem to have got away with unwanted sexual advances whether of the verbal or physical kind. Before I am accused of being sexist, yes there are women who come on to men and that is very wrong too.

[Rhiannon]

I think it is good that it is all coming out into the open now. For far too long men seem to have got away with unwanted sexual advances whether of the verbal or physical kind. Before I am accused of being sexist, yes there are women who come on to men and that is very wrong too.

Why is it wrong for women to come onto men? Or men onto women etc.

[floo]

Why is it wrong for women to come onto men? Or men onto women etc.

I just hate that it gives me the creeps! 

[Nearly Sane]

I just hate that it gives me the creeps! 

So how is anyone meant to show that if the other person(s) is/are willing then canoodling might be a fun consensual activity?

[Rhiannon]

I just hate that it gives me the creeps! 

But you hating it doesn't make it wrong.

[floo]

But you hating it doesn't make it wrong.

I think it is wrong to chat someone up in a sexually explicit way, especially if it makes the other person uncomfortable.

[Rhiannon]

I think it is wrong to chat someone up in a sexually explicit way, especially if it makes the other person uncomfortable.

But hitting on someone isn't sexually explicit (what gave you that idea?) and is often very welcome indeed.

[Aruntraveller]

I think it is wrong to chat someone up in a sexually explicit way, especially if it makes the other person uncomfortable.

Isn't this the whole nub of the issue though - people can't agree on what is and what isn't appropriate behaviour.

I'm sure I probably take a different view to you on what I think is a "sexually explicit way" and even then it doesn't take into account how the person receiving such advances view them. It seems to me you will not arrive at one set of rules for this so there is no point trying.

What should be concentrated on is the illegal behaviour of people rather than trying to proscribe what ordinary folks get up to on a night out where (let's face it) for a lot of people the primary reason is to flirt, chat up, getting hit on, and in some cases getting their leg over at some point during, or in the last instance, hopefully after the proceedings.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Dawkins, that all sounds exhausting. I must be getting old.

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Dawkins, that all sounds exhausting. I must be getting old.

Aye well it's been awhile since I went out into the City Centre at night but my contacts tell me that people are still behaving the way they always did in my youth - dim and distant though that now is. Men fancying women, women fancying men, men fancying men, women fancying women*

*Other options are available.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I just hate that it gives me the creeps! 

The only time in my life that I have "hit on" anybody was at a lavish Richmond riverside pub in the early nineties, my friends and I had a competition to "hit on" a female randomly chosen by the other two lads, the idea was to last as long as possible before being "blown out". The first two boys were blown out after about two minutes, yet I was still chatting away fifteen minutes later.

Was it my natural charm, and witty conversation?

No, the other boys had inadvertently chosen an Aussie backpacker, who was very happy to chat with a stranger, that was why she had gone abroad.

[Enki]

In my youth, dancing was one major way of meeting somebody. If you fancied someone, you asked her(rarely him) to dance. If the person you asked didn't want to dance with you, then they simply refused. Granted, this was a definite blow to your ego, but it seemed a sort of civilised way to go about things. If the person accepted, then you danced and talked. If you both were still attracted to each other, then one of you either invited that person to a drink at the bar or asked her/him for another dance. In this way many people met each other and relationships took shape. I actually met my wife like this, and we became engaged about ten days later.

[Nearly Sane]

Ye dancin?

[Rhiannon]

Aye well it's been awhile since I went out into the City Centre at night but my contacts tell me that people are still behaving the way they always did in my youth - dim and distant though that now is. Men fancying women, women fancying men, men fancying men, women fancying women*

*Other options are available.

It happens outside of city centres too. In rural places we are grateful for bus shelters.

[Aruntraveller]

It happens outside of city centres too. In rural places we are grateful for bus shelters.

Knee tremblers in bus shelters - stay classy Britain!

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Knee tremblers in bus shelters - stay classy Britain!

Trent you have just again outed yourself as a closet Mail reader.

[Aruntraveller]

Trent you have just again outed yourself as a closet Mail reader.

HWB - I think over all the years that I have frequented this board, nobody, but nobody (and this includes many long gone posters who were fairly rude from time to time) has said anything quite so offensive and disgusting as that!

Apologise at once you bounder 

[floo]

HWB - I think over all the years that I have frequented this board, nobody, but nobody (and this includes many long gone posters who were fairly rude from time to time) has said anything quite so offensive and disgusting as that!

Apologise at once you bounder 

To be accused of reading that ghastly tabloid is indeed an insult too far.

[wigginhall]

I haven't read the whole letter, but there seems to be a conflation between defending the right of people to flirt and 'hit on' each other, and then the issue of a witch-hunt of men.   Eh?  Who has been unjustly accused of harassment?

The French seems to use the word 'importuner', "Nous défendons une liberté d’importuner, indispensable à la liberté sexuelle", which does't really help as I don't know the full flavour of 'importuner'.