Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Did Kevin actually make an improper suggestion to the boy?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Rather like HWB attempted earlier in the thread.

I did not include Gina Royle, since she sat on my lap and kissed me first.

I am not claiming sexual harrassement, since in all honesty I did not put up too much of a fight.

[Nearly Sane]

Did Kevin actually make an improper suggestion to the boy?

So if I say pick up your 14 old daughter and roll on her, it's ok if I don't say 'Howzabout a bj?'

[Nearly Sane]

I did not include Gina Royle, since she sat on my lap and kissed me first.

I am not claiming sexual harrassement, since in all honesty I did not put up too much of a fight.

And again with trying to trivialise claims of sexual harassment and abuse

[Shaker]

In what way is the focus different?

Rather than get into the details of any specific case I'm interested to know whether people think a figure should have an honour or something similar witheld or even stripped on the basis of allegation.

[Nearly Sane]

Rather than get into the details of any specific case I'm interested to know whether people think a figure should have an honour or something similar witheld or even stripped on the basis of allegation.

In terms of stripping someone of an award, no. Though the question is what is an allegation, and here is where I think it is difficult to avoid specific cases. Weinstein has denied certain allegations but it would seem tacitly accepted others - are they serious enough to mean some things are withheld/stripped - surely only the specific case is significant there.

For Spacey, it's surely difficult to have a special award where it appears that there isn't even a denial or acceptance? Some form of delay makes sense.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So if I say pick up your 14 old daughter and roll on her, it's ok if I don't say 'Howzabout a bj?'

That is not the issue.

[Nearly Sane]

That is not the issue.

In what way? You seemed to be positing that making an 'improper suggestion' was significant.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Did Kevin Spacey actually make an improper suggestion?

He has said that he cannot remember the same, but if he did, then he apologised.

Kevin has forgotten that this is not the nineties, but the teens. Apologies ain't accepeted any more.

[Rhiannon]

You cannot make sexual assault and harassment ok by apologising. Especially given that we're talking about a victim who was a teenager at the time.

[Nearly Sane]

Did Kevin Spacey actually make an improper suggestion?

He has said that he cannot remember the same, but if he did, then he apologised.

Kevin has forgotten that this is not the nineties, but the teens. Apologies ain't accepeted any more.

And again if I roll on your 14 year old daughter and don't make an improper suggestion, is that ok? Or was it ok in the 90s but not now?

[Shaker]

You cannot make sexual assault and harassment ok by apologising. Especially given that we're talking about a victim who was a teenager at the time.

Apologising for something you might have done, can't remember doing but are sorry for just in case you actually did do it after all is ... well, peculiar hardly does it justice.

[Rhiannon]

When I was thirteen I went with my parents to a party; I was groped by a much older man that I was dancing with and it was pretty disgusting. My overwhelming memory of it though is being totally out of my depth in a situation that I had never encountered before and with someone who was essentially more powerful than me. There were worse things, but this was an older man who should have known better and being slightly pissed was no excuse.

What Spacey did is so much worse. Assuming it to be true, no apology helps.

[jeremyp]

I'm interested to know whether people think a figure should have an honour or something similar witheld or even stripped on the basis of allegation.

I'd say, in the former case, yes; in the latter case, no.

In the case of Kevin Spacey, if you are going to give him an award, it would be better to wait until the allegations are resolved one way or the other. If nothing else, the cloud hanging over him will dampen the atmosphere.

On the other hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable to strip an award from somebody who has been convicted of a crime. This sometimes happens in the case of British Royal honours. But it is unfair to strip such awards until they have been found guilty.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

And again if I roll on your 14 year old daughter and don't make an improper suggestion, is that ok? Or was it ok in the 90s but not now?

If you talk to my fourteen year old daughter & don't make an improper suggestion then you have done nothing wrong.

[Rhiannon]

Apologising for something you might have done, can't remember doing but are sorry for just in case you actually did do it after all is ... well, peculiar hardly does it justice.

I was replying to Humph's suggestion that apologies aren't accepted. No, they make fuck all difference to what sexual assault does and those who grope, assault and rape know it.; they get off on it, it is why they do it for fuck's sake.

[jeremyp]

You cannot make sexual assault and harassment ok by apologising. Especially given that we're talking about a victim who was a teenager at the time.

Isn't that up to the victim to decide?

[Rhiannon]

Isn't that up to the victim to decide?

Well I can tell you it'd make fuck all difference to me. Not that I've ever had one.

[jeremyp]

Well I can tell you it'd make fuck all difference to me. Not that I've ever had one.

You were the victim. It's your decision.

[Rhiannon]

You were the victim. It's your decision.

I’m nobody’s victim.

But aside from that, how a victim responds can not be the only consideration. Sex crime affects us as a society, it means we moderate our behaviour, it divides us. It isn’t just for individual victims to decide to forgive.

[jeremyp]

I’m nobody’s victim.

You were saying that you suffered a sexual assault. You were the victim in that assault. Calling you the victim is a statement of fact and casts no aspersions on how you dealt with it nor is it meant as a criticism.

But aside from that, how a victim responds can not be the only consideration. Sex crime affects us as a society, it means we moderate our behaviour, it divides us. It isn’t just for individual victims to decide to forgive.

Would you compel a rape victim to testify against a rapist if she didn't want to, bearing in mind that it would be for the good of society - especially women - for the rapist to not be in a position to do it again?

What about Adam Sandler putting his hand on Claire Foy's knee? In some people's eyes that was a sexual assault, but not apparently Claire Foy.

[Nearly Sane]

If you talk to my fourteen year old daughter & don't make an improper suggestion then you have done nothing wrong.

I asked about rolling on her. Why did you you change that?

[Nearly Sane]

You were saying that you suffered a sexual assault. You were the victim in that assault. Calling you the victim is a statement of fact and casts no aspersions on how you dealt with it nor is it meant as a criticism.
Would you compel a rape victim to testify against a rapist if she didn't want to, bearing in mind that it would be for the good of society - especially women - for the rapist to not be in a position to do it again?

What about Adam Sandler putting his hand on Claire Foy's knee? In some people's eyes that was a sexual assault, but not apparently Claire Foy.

Why are you indulging in the same trivialising of what is being talked about as Humph?

[jeremyp]

Why are you indulging in the same trivialising of what is being talked about as Humph?

I haven't trivialised anything.

[Nearly Sane]

I haven't trivialised anything.

It reads to me that you have. I don't see the point in raising an incident where someone didn't feel assaualted to someone who did and ask 'what about that then?'.