Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Rhiannon]

Well hopefully the enquiry will discover the truth of the matter.

And if he’s innocent it’ll be a bit late to put things right seeing as he’s dead.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And if he’s innocent it’ll be a bit late to put things right seeing as he’s dead.

The accusers could be named and shamed.

[Anchorman]

If his death was suicide, it looks as if he had a case to answer.

Sorry, you csnnpt assume anything because he has ended his life.
Such an assumption at this point would be sheer speculation and nothing more.

[Rhiannon]

The accusers could be named and shamed.

And that serves what? Should they kill themselves too?

[Shaker]

The accusers could be named and shamed.

Yes they could.

Not a lot of help to Mr Sergeant though and scant consolation to his family and friends.

[Nearly Sane]

The accusers could be named and shamed.

So you think that making an allegation means that it's untrue?

[Rhiannon]

So you think that making an allegation means that it's untrue?

And is a great way of ensuring fewer victims come forward.

[Nearly Sane]

And is a great way of ensuring fewer victims come forward.

Indeed. I don't, and I suspect no one on this board, has any information that allows them to judge what are the facts in this case. I don't know what the actual allegations are, never mind if they are true. I cannot judge anything about those who have made the allegations. Whatever has happened is tragic for his family. Knee jerk blaming of anyone who made an allegation seems extrordinary

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So you think that making an allegation means that it's untrue?

What gave you that idea since I was responding to Rhiannon's scenario of his innocence.
In which event the accusations would have been malicious.
I point out that one COA would be to make that maliciousness public

[Rhiannon]

What gave you that idea since I was responding to Rhiannon's scenario of his innocence.
In which event the accusations would have been malicious.
I point out that one COA would be to make that maliciousness public

Not commenting on this specific case here, but the wider picture. The issue is that innocence can be found even when someone is guilty - it can be hard to make charges of abuse/rape/domestic violence stick. If someone is already  shamed through being attacked tbe prospect of being named and shamed on top of the shame of being disbelieved... hardly anyone would report these crimes.

There’s a case for anonymity for both parties though. Would that have worked in this case?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not commenting on this specific case here, but the wider picture. The issue is that innocence can be found even when someone is guilty - it can be hard to make charges of abuse/rape/domestic violence stick. If someone is already  shamed through being attacked tbe prospect of being named and shamed on top of the shame of being disbelieved... hardly anyone would report these crimes.

There’s a case for anonymity for both parties though. Would that have worked in this case?

Certainly something should be done to protect people all round rather than the shambles we have now as the system appears to be collapsing all round.

[Rhiannon]

There’s a lot going on that’s good, and a lot that is appalling, and there’s this.

[Harrowby Hall]

And if he’s innocent it’ll be a bit late to put things right seeing as he’s dead.

The accusers could be named and shamed.

Aren't complainants give an assurance of confidentiality? I don't recall the women who accused William Roache being named. Their evidence fell apart during his trial but they kept their anonymity. Paul Gambaccini was kept in limbo by the Metropolitan Police for many months, but his accuser also maintained his anonymity.

The only case I am aware of of false complaints leading to identification and prosecution of the complainants was that of Christine and Neil Hamilton.

[Nearly Sane]

I think Vlad was talking about some theoretical naming of people for which we have no evidence that they are malicious

[Nearly Sane]

What gave you that idea since I was responding to Rhiannon's scenario of his innocence.
In which event the accusations would have been malicious.
I point out that one COA would be to make that maliciousness public

Is there a reason why you ask what gave me the idea, which was phrased as a question, and then wrote that you wanted to give that idea? We don't know enough details here and you are talking about 'shaming' people.

[Nearly Sane]

Are people going to retroactively remove Spacey from films and programmes?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41925767

[Shaker]

Doubleplusungood unpersons, anyone?

[jeremyp]

You are wrong there. It's possible to feel utter despair as an innocent person.

No she isn't. It does look like it. But looking like something isn't the same as it being true. The man's career has been destroyed and that might be enough even without there being any substance to the allegations.

[jeremyp]

The accusers could be named and shamed.

Is that going to bring him back to life?

[Rhiannon]

No she isn't. It does look like it. But looking like something isn't the same as it being true. The man's career has been destroyed and that might be enough even without there being any substance to the allegations.

Are you disagreeing with me when I say that someone innocent could take their own lives because of despair at untrue allegations?

[jeremyp]

Are you disagreeing with me when I say that someone innocent could take their own lives because of despair at untrue allegations?

No and I don't really see how you could reasonably read disagreement with that part of your post onto my post.

What I do disagree with is the first part of your post that asserts that floo was wrong when she said it looks bad. It does look bad.

[Rhiannon]

No and I don't really see how you could reasonably read disagreement with that part of your post onto my post.

What I do disagree with is the first part of your post that asserts that floo was wrong when she said it looks bad. It does look bad.

Oh, ok, I'm following you now.

[Sriram]

Sexual harassment...George Bush Sr....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41987895

*************

An eighth woman has come forward with claims that former US president George HW Bush groped her.

An interpreter, whom the BBC has agreed not to name because of the sensitive nature of her job, claims Mr Bush touched her inappropriately in 2004.

It was at the photo call after the meeting had finished when the alleged incident occurred.

"When the time came to take the photos, Mr Bush insisted on me being in the photo," the interpreter said.

"I remember thinking this was odd. Usually we stay outside of the frame.

"He grabbed my bum. At first I thought it was an accident, but then he did it a second time."

Her story is similar to other allegations made against Mr Bush. Another woman, Roslyn Corrigan, told the publication Time that Mr Bush touched her inappropriately in 2003, when she was 16.

*************

[floo]

I see Aled Jones has been axed from 'Songs of Praise', as sexual harassment claims have been made against him. I am shocked I always rated that guy, he was in the same form at school in Anglesey as one of our sons-in-law.

[Rhiannon]

His excuse is that a decade ago his behaviour was less mature, as was that of others.

A decade ago he was 36.