Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Maeght]

His excuse is that a decade ago his behaviour was less mature, as was that of others.

A decade ago he was 36.

Didn't he say 'his behaviour over a decade ago was occasionally juvenile, as was that of others,'. I don't think he was claiming he should be excused because of his age ten years ago, only that he hasn't acted in a juvenile way since then.

[Rhiannon]

The 'as was that of others' implies that being juvenile in one's thirties is something that people just do, a youthful indiscretion.

[Robbie]

It gets worse!
A very few years ago I saw a TV interview with the novelist, Joanna Trolloppe who is now in her early seventies.  She related that her first job was in the Foreign Office and sexual innuendo and groping was rife.  One person she mentioned in particular was George Brown, girls were warned to stand against the wall if he was coming to their offices, he liked to grope from behind presumably.  She said he was the worst one! They accepted that even though they didn't like it, had no choice because if they had complained, no-one would have taken it seriously.  Sounds dreadful.

My mum - older than Joanna Trolloppe - worked in the Foreign Office until she was pregnant with me.  She said it was the same in her day - not GB obviously - and young women were expected to get on with it.

[floo]

I heard George Brown had an alcohol problem. Off topic, but when I was in labour with our eldest girl on the night of the general election in 1970, my husband was in the relatives room awaiting developments and watching the TV. A member of staff asked him if he had any message for his wife, "Tell her George Brown is out at Belper", was his reply!

[Nearly Sane]

I heard George Brown had an alcohol problem. Off topic, but when I was in labour with our eldest girl on the night of the general election in 1970, my husband was in the relatives room awaiting developments and watching the TV. A member of staff asked him if he had any message for his wife, "Tell her George Brown is out at Belper", was his reply!

George Brown's drunkenness is a known fact but the classic likely apocryphal story is as follows:


"Attending a glittering official reception at the Palace of the Dawn on an official visit to Brazil, with all the military officers in full-dress uniform and the ambassadors in court dress, he is said to have made a bee-line for a gorgeously crimson-clad figure.
A colleague later recalled: ‘George said: “Excuse me, but may I have the pleasure of this dance?” There was a terrible silence for a moment before the guest, who knew who he was, replied: “There are three reasons, Mr Brown, why I will not dance with you.
'“The first, I fear, is that you’ve had too much to drink. The second is that this is not, as you suppose, a waltz that the orchestra is playing but the Peruvian national anthem, for which you should be standing to attention. And the third reason why we may not dance, Mr Brown, is that I am the Cardinal Archbishop of Lima.”’
 


Thing is, I've heard that story from different sources for nearly forty years, and it was never really censorious. It was looked on as almost an eccentricity and I suspect the sexual assaults of women, if he carried them out, were just seen as part of that. Something to be managed not stopped.

[Robbie]

That's funny NS  .

Floo I may be dense today but don't get the Belper reference, which is a place in Derbyshire.

Yes he couldn't cope without the booze unfortunately. He was a proper old Labour man, born to a working class family, educated himself through the WEA. Pity he had wandering hands.

[Nearly Sane]

George Brown's seat was Belper; he lost the seat in the 1970 GE.

[floo]

George Brown's seat was Belper; he lost the seat in the 1970 GE.

Exactly.

[Maeght]

The 'as was that of others' implies that being juvenile in one's thirties is something that people just do, a youthful indiscretion.

it suggests people of any age can act in a juvenile fashion - which is true.

[Rhiannon]

it suggests people of any age can act in a juvenile fashion - which is true.

But it excuses and minimalises it. This isn’t in the context of too much clubbing or doing too much E. This is in the context of sexual harassment. It isn’t youthful indiscretion in your twenties; to trivialise such behaviour in your thirties as ‘juvenile’ (just larks, darling) is pathetic.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

But it excuses and minimalises it. This isn’t in the context of too much clubbing or doing too much E. This is in the context of sexual harassment. It isn’t youthful indiscretion in your twenties; to trivialise such behaviour in your thirties as ‘juvenile’ (just larks, darling) is pathetic.

Be fair, we don't know what he is alleged to have done yet.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

George Brown's seat was Belper; he lost the seat in the 1970 GE.

From what I can gather, he probably lost his seat (as in falling off it) many times

I have read the wiki article about him, apparently when he went to the Lords, he changed his name to George George-Brown

[Rhiannon]

Be fair, we don't know what he is alleged to have done yet.

It’s enough for him to decide to stand aside from his broadcasting duties.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Incidentally, Lena Dunham has made a prize fool of herself:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/lena-dunham-murray-miller-rape-accusation-aurora-perrineau-jenni-konner-apology-girls-latest-a8063396.html

[Rhiannon]

Leaving aside the fact that Lens Dunham hasn’t made a fool of herself but something far worse, I don’t think that’s the most important thing about that story, do you?

[Maeght]

But it excuses and minimalises it. This isn’t in the context of too much clubbing or doing too much E. This is in the context of sexual harassment. It isn’t youthful indiscretion in your twenties; to trivialise such behaviour in your thirties as ‘juvenile’ (just larks, darling) is pathetic.

I certainly don't trivialise sexual harrassment, as I hope you have seen from my other posts. He may well be attempting to down play what happened as just being juvenile behaviour - I don't know. My point was just to clarify what he actually said which differed, in my view, from what you suggested he said.

[Rhiannon]

I certainly don't trivialise sexual harrassment, as I hope you have seen from my other posts. He may well be attempting to down play what happened as just being juvenile behaviour - I don't know. My point was just to clarify what he actually said which differed, in my view, from what you suggested he said.

I didn’t mean that you are trivialising it, I meant that he is. To dismiss his own behaviour as ‘juvenile’ immediately puts down whoever it is who has made the accusation against him - it’s not far off ‘shame she can’t take a joke’. We don’t know the content but we do know that the harassment he seems to be admitting is sending text messages with some kind of sexual content; he denies the accusation of ‘unwanted contact’.

[Maeght]

I didn’t mean that you are trivialising it, I meant that he is. To dismiss his own behaviour as ‘juvenile’ immediately puts down whoever it is who has made the accusation against him - it’s not far off ‘shame she can’t take a joke’. We don’t know the content but we do know that the harassment he seems to be admitting is sending text messages with some kind of sexual content; he denies the accusation of ‘unwanted contact’.

Yes, and thanks, I think we agree on this topic (and others too!).

[Rhiannon]

Yes, and thanks, I think we agree on this topic (and others too!).

 

[Robbie]

George Brown's seat was Belper; he lost the seat in the 1970 GE.

Thanks, I might have guessed it was that. I did look him up after floo's post but must've glossed over the Belper reference.

[jeremyp]

It’s enough for him to decide to stand aside from his broadcasting duties.

Judging by this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42043422

it's probably just about some text messages he might have sent to somebody (or some people). He's denying inappropriate contact.

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42025255

The JW cult apparently covered up child sex abuse perpetrated by their members!

[Rhiannon]

Judging by this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42043422

it's probably just about some text messages he might have sent to somebody (or some people). He's denying inappropriate contact.

I know, I said that in a reply to Maeght. It depends though on what was said and to who it was said. If he was in a position of power then it’s realky not good. If she told him to stop and he didn’t, likewise. And as for the inappropriate contact, we have to wait for the outcome of the investigation.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Leaving aside the fact that Lens Dunham hasn’t made a fool of herself but something far worse, I don’t think that’s the most important thing about that story, do you?

Lena Dunham stands by a friend of hers, and then changes her mind just because some "feminists" tell her that she should not bat for the opposition? I think that tells a lot about Lena, and about some feminists.

[Nearly Sane]

Morrissey adds his tuppenceworth



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512