Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Robbie]

I'm surprised at him (don't know why).
"Anyone who ever said 'I like you' to someone else is suddenly being charged with sexual harassment," he said.
I  don't  think  so.

Lena Dunham has had to apologise for/retract statements she has made before about other issues, makes me think perhaps she'd be better off saying nothing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42025255

The JW cult apparently covered up child sex abuse perpetrated by their members!

Floo you seem surprised. I'd read about sexual abuse in the JW community and various Brethren sects, mainly concerning elders taking advantage.  It happens in every religious group, the more exclusive and/or secretive they are the easier it seems to be.  Not just Christian-type sects but others, including some of the exclusive Jewish sects who take it very seriously and have systems set up to deal with the perpetrators.

[Rhiannon]

Morrissey adds his tuppenceworth



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512

Pillock. He's not actually grown up, has he?

[Rhiannon]

Lena Dunham stands by a friend of hers, and then changes her mind just because some "feminists" tell her that she should not bat for the opposition? I think that tells a lot about Lena, and about some feminists.

So one feminist screws up and that tells you something about other feminists? Really? How about I say that your comments tells me a great deal not only about you as a man, but about some men?

To repeat, Dunham didn't 'make a fool' of herself. She said something very damaging. It isn't something to gloat over.

[Nearly Sane]

Pillock. He's not actually grown up, has he?

he may even have managed to grow down.

[Walter]

Morrissey adds his tuppenceworth



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512

I tend to agree with him , it's all gone crazy

[Rhiannon]

I tend to agree with him , it's all gone crazy

"People know exactly what's going on," he reportedly said when asked about Weinstein inviting actresses to his hotel room, "and they play along".
"Afterwards, they feel embarrassed or disliked. And then they turn it around and say: 'I was attacked, I was surprised'.
"But if everything went well, and if it had given them a great career, they would not talk about it."
"I hate rape... But in many cases, one looks at the circumstances and thinks that the person who is considered a victim is merely disappointed."

You agree with this? Really?

[jeremyp]

So one feminist screws up and that tells you something about other feminists? Really? How about I say that your comments tells me a great deal not only about you as a man, but about some men?

To repeat, Dunham didn't 'make a fool' of herself. She said something very damaging. It isn't something to gloat over.

What did she say that was damaging?

As far as I can see, she simply supported somebody who denies an accusation of rape.

[Nearly Sane]

What did she say that was damaging?

As far as I can see, she simply supported somebody who denies an accusation of rape.

She said that the accusation was wrong because she knew the man. And ergo the woman was lying. She didn't simply support the person she knew

[Nearly Sane]

I tend to agree with him , it's all gone crazy

So given he supports Weinstein who has been accused of rape and is on tape about sexual assault, you think it's all gone crazy. You do realise that in your daughter's complaint against her manager, Morrissey is on the manager's side?

[jeremyp]

She said that the accusation was wrong because she knew the man. And ergo the woman was lying. She didn't simply support the person she knew

Well of course, if you don't believe the man did what he is accused of, it follows you think the accuser was lying. It concerns me that supporting the accused in a case like this because you think they are not guilty is now deemed unacceptable by some.

[Robbie]

What did she say that was damaging?

As far as I can see, she simply supported somebody who denies an accusation of rape.

and backed down soon afterwards. She did the same with racist and homophobic comments though they weren't accusations but she lacks credibility.

[jeremyp]

and backed down soon afterwards. She did the same with racist and homophobic comments though they weren't accusations but she lacks credibility.

OK, I can see how her behaviour has been damaging to herself...

[Nearly Sane]

Well of course, if you don't believe the man did what he is accused of, it follows you think the accuser was lying. It concerns me that supporting the accused in a case like this because you think they are not guilty is now deemed unacceptable by some.

I think there is a huge difference between saying I am supportive of someone and that someone who says they were raped by them is obviously lying. I could say that because of my belief I'm inclined to believe them but it's not for me to say what happened.

[Rhiannon]

I think there is a huge difference between saying I am supportive of someone and that someone who says they were raped by them is obviously lying. I could say that because of my belief I'm inclined to believe them but it's not for me to say what happened.

Being disbelieved is an added trauma on top of abuse and rape. It's a disgusting and abominable thing to accuse someone of lying before the facts have been established.

[Anchorman]

 Disturbing report from the Beeb regarding the JW attitude to child abuse....which appears to be much worse than previously suspected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42025255

[jeremyp]

I think there is a huge difference between saying I am supportive of someone and that someone who says they were raped by them is obviously lying. I could say that because of my belief I'm inclined to believe them but it's not for me to say what happened.

The second form is weasel words of the form often used by politicians when they believe something to be true but know it would be unpopular.

If you truly believe the accused is innocent, why not call the accuser out as not telling the truth? Sure, you should qualify the statement with "in my opinion", but people are always failing to do that.

[Nearly Sane]

Being disbelieved is an added trauma on top of abuse and rape. It's a disgusting and abominable thing to accuse someone of lying before the facts have been established.

And being disbelieved has been the default for so long that why come forward, why even say what you think happened because after all you don't get in those situations unless you were asking for it.

'the gospel according to Morrissey'

[Nearly Sane]

The second form is weasel words of the form often used by politicians when they believe something to be true but know it would be unpopular.

If you truly believe the accused is innocent, why not call the accuser out as not telling the truth? Sure, you should qualify the statement with "in my opinion", but people are always failing to do that.

Perhaps because you don't know and  calling someone saying they gave been raped as a liar when you don't know is disgusting?

[Rhiannon]

And being disbelieved has been the default for so long that why come forward, why even say what you think happened because after all you don't get in those situations unless you were asking for it.

'the gospel according to Morrissey'

Exactly.

This makes coming forward feel less safe, and coming forward is terrifying enough as it is.

[jeremyp]

Being disbelieved is an added trauma on top of abuse and rape. It's a disgusting and abominable thing to accuse someone of lying before the facts have been established.

If you are somebody who believes the accused to be innocent and you want to say so, how can you do it without implicitly saying the accuser was not telling the truth.

This is part of the statement she made with Jenni Konner:

We believe, having worked closely with him for more than half a decade, that this is the case with Murray Miller. While our first instinct is to listen to every woman’s story, our insider knowledge of Murray’s situation makes us confident that sadly this accusation is one of the 3% of assault cases that are misreported every year. It is a true shame to add to that number, as outside of Hollywood women still struggle to be believed. We stand by Murray and this is all we’ll be saying about this issue.

She at no point accuses anybody of lying, although, obviously, she is implying that Ms. Perrineau was not telling the truth but not necessarily lying.

[jeremyp]

Perhaps because you don't know and  calling someone saying they gave been raped as a liar when you don't know is disgusting?

Nobody called the victim a liar, they simply said that, in this case they did not believe that the victim was raped by the accused.

[Nearly Sane]

If you are somebody who believes the accused to be innocent and you want to say so, how can you do it without implicitly saying the accuser was not telling the truth.

This is part of the statement she made with Jenni Konner:

She at no point accuses anybody of lying, although, obviously, she is implying that Ms. Perrineau was not telling the truth but not necessarily lying.

Implying you aren't talking the truth is here saying you are lying.

[jeremyp]

Exactly.

This makes coming forward feel less safe, and coming forward is terrifying enough as it is.

How do you balance that against the right of somebody falsely accused to defend themselves and their reputation?

[Nearly Sane]

Nobody called the victim a liar, they simply said that, in this case they did not believe that the victim was raped by the accused.

No they said it was a false report.

[jeremyp]

Implying you aren't talking the truth is here saying you are lying.

No it isn't.

She could be mistaken that the incident happened at all. She could be mistaken that the incident was rape (if she consented but forgot that she consented). She could be mistaken about the identity of the rapist.