Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Nearly Sane]

+1.

I do remember some years ago the English Womens FA refused a donation from porn baron David Sullivan. The irony is that his second in command, one Karren Brady, is now being touted as some kind of feminist role model, having made her money & reputation in the porn industry.

Not seeing the irony there.

[Rhiannon]

Not seeing the irony there.

And Brady works in football, not porn.

[jakswan]

Can’t tell you how often these things happened to me when I was younger. Hand up skirt, grope in a bar, hand in underwear, hand down top... get a lift home, you’re asking for it. Walk home, you’re asking for it. Have a drink, you’re asking for it. Go to the park, you’re asking for it. Don’t report it, you were asking for it.

That is quite chilling who is the 'asking for it'.

I've a 14 yo daughter I think she has been educated to make sure that these things are not ok, will make sure though. How would you approach it?

Reality for me as a young woman. I’m lucky there’s no lasting damage. Just sadness.

It is tragic.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

And Brady works in football, not porn.

So what she does now has expunged her past?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I have no idea how healthy the finances are at GOSH but I doubt this scenario will happen.

https://www.ft.com/content/49af420c-00f6-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

[Robbie]

So what she does now has expunged her past?

Karren Brady has not worked in porn. She did work for a couple of people who had financial interests in the porn industry. I can't work out why you latched on to that!

Here's an article and interview:
https://www.independent.ie/woman/celeb-news/karren-brady-a-catholic-feminist-who-works-for-porn-barons-26849379.html

[Rhiannon]

That is quite chilling who is the 'asking for it'.

I've a 14 yo daughter I think she has been educated to make sure that these things are not ok, will make sure though. How would you approach it?

It is tragic.

Thanks, Jak.

My daughters are around the same age as yours. I’ve always approached these things honestly and frankly. Stories like those in the press now and Me Too have given the opportunity for us to talk a lot about issues like harassment, consent, victim blaming etc. There’s a really good feminist website aimed at young women, will try to find it.

I have a son too and he gets included in some of our discussions although he’s younger, so it’s not all age appropriate for him yet.

ETA here’s a link.

http://ukfeminista.org.uk/about-us/

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Karren Brady has not worked in porn. She did work for a couple of people who had financial interests in the porn industry. I can't work out why you latched on to that!

Here's an article and interview:
https://www.independent.ie/woman/celeb-news/karren-brady-a-catholic-feminist-who-works-for-porn-barons-26849379.html

So surely that is still "tainted money"? The fact that Brady may not have been a model, or a photographer, does not mean that she has not worked in the porn industry.

[Rhiannon]

So surely that is still "tainted money"? The fact that Brady may not have been a model, or a photographer, does not mean that she has not worked in the porn industry.

Still not getting what this has to do with men sexually assaulting women?

[Robbie]

Nor me.

[jakswan]

Thanks, Jak.

My daughters are around the same age as yours. I’ve always approached these things honestly and frankly. Stories like those in the press now and Me Too have given the opportunity for us to talk a lot about issues like harassment, consent, victim blaming etc. There’s a really good feminist website aimed at young women, will try to find it.

I have a son too and he gets included in some of our discussions although he’s younger, so it’s not all age appropriate for him yet.

Thanks, I'm travelling today but when I get home will speak to the daughter and wife about this, I'm sure we are on the same page but always pays to be certain.

I've a son of 22 never had any concerns in this regard but worthy of a conversation.

[Nearly Sane]

So surely that is still "tainted money"? The fact that Brady may not have been a model, or a photographer, does not mean that she has not worked in the porn industry.

I am at a loss to the point you are trying to make here. What has this to do with sexual assualt of women?

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.ft.com/content/49af420c-00f6-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

Behind pay wall

[Rhiannon]

Thanks, I'm travelling today but when I get home will speak to the daughter and wife about this, I'm sure we are on the same page but always pays to be certain.

I've a son of 22 never had any concerns in this regard but worthy of a conversation.

 

[floo]

Thanks, Jak.

My daughters are around the same age as yours. I’ve always approached these things honestly and frankly. Stories like those in the press now and Me Too have given the opportunity for us to talk a lot about issues like harassment, consent, victim blaming etc. There’s a really good feminist website aimed at young women, will try to find it.

I have a son too and he gets included in some of our discussions although he’s younger, so it’s not all age appropriate for him yet.

ETA here’s a link.

http://ukfeminista.org.uk/about-us/

At what age do you think it is appropriate to have this discussion with your son?

[Rhiannon]

At what age do you think it is appropriate to have this discussion with your son?

We do discuss things now - he’s 11 - but just avoid including him in some of the more adult discussion. That said, if he asks a question then I answer it. He knows about rape, consent etc. And by his age it’s essential to have talked about sexting and the possible consequences of sharing images.

It’s not just one discussion either. It’s an evolving conversation that can happen in response to the news, a song on the radio, a sports star getting arrested, something happening at school...  I’ve found that making sex and issues around it a normal topic of conversation is better than the ‘we need to have a chat’ approach, which is a bit cringey.

ETA when it comes to issues like sexting, young men need protecting too. They are just as vulnerable to exploitation.

[Aruntraveller]

Yeah, my posting style is angry right now. Not because I’m on any ‘side’. This isn’t a fucking game. It’s not a contest. I’m not seeing much on this thread that gives me a great deal of assurance that my daughters will be maturing into a different world, NS’s posts aside.

Thanks for that vote of confidence. I merely posted about the money donated. That you feel I am in some way threatening the safety of your daughters by raising the issue of what happens to monies donated is sad. I do hope you see that that really is not the case.

[Sriram]

So what do you people think the options are now...

1. These clubs/organisations will (should) stop advertising for such hostesses. 

2. Women will (should) stop responding to such advts.

3. Even if the above two continue, men will (should) stop behaving the way they did.


Just as an aside...one of the states in India has made 'buying sex' a crime instead of the usual 'selling sex'. Do you think that makes sense?

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for that vote of confidence. I merely posted about the money donated. That you feel I am in some way threatening the safety of your daughters by raising the issue of what happens to monies donated is sad. I do hope you see that that really is not the case.

Why make this personal? It’s not a problem of individuals, it’s society. If we *as a society* think that it is acceptable for a charity to take money that is tainted by the sexual harassment and assault of young women then *as a society* we have a big problem. Your view that the money should be put to good use isn’t uncommon - in fact I veered towards that earlier. But I’ve thought about it (largely as a result of this discussion) and now think differently. It’s better to draw a line, otherwise we are on thin ice when we say we want sexual assault and exploitation to end.

Incidentally, my daughter read the FT account earlier and wondered about drinks being roofied. Maybe, maybe not, but the description of the event leaves rape a possibility, with all its consequences. I can’t say with confidence that no young women will have lifelong consequences as a result of these events. How can any charity take such money?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Still not getting what this has to do with men sexually assaulting women?

The exploitation of women, by women is somehow better than the exploitation of women by men?

It is wrong to take money from the likes of Sullivan, but presumably it is ok to take money from the likes of Brady?

Better to return money from allegedly sleazy men, than to spend it on sick kids, 'cos it was allegedly made exploiting women?

If you answer yes to those, so be it, but please stop trying to imply that these valid questions are "whataboutery", or irrelevant.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So what do you people think the options are now...

1. These clubs/organisations will (should) stop advertising for such hostesses. 

2. Women will (should) stop responding to such advts.

3. Even if the above two continue, men will (should) stop behaving the way they did.


Just as an aside...one of the states in India has made 'buying sex' a crime instead of the usual 'selling sex'. Do you think that makes sense?

1. They will not
2. They will not
3. They will not

Aside. No that is silly. To make it legal to sell something but illegal to buy it, is ridiculous.

[Rhiannon]

The exploitation of women, by women is somehow better than the exploitation of women by men?

It is wrong to take money from the likes of Sullivan, but presumably it is ok to take money from the likes of Brady?

Better to return money from allegedly sleazy men, than to spend it on sick kids, 'cos it was allegedly made exploiting women?

If you answer yes to those, so be it, but please stop trying to imply that these valid questions are "whataboutery", or irrelevant.

The women at the event were not exploited, they were assaulted. As NS says, that is illegal. Consensually appearing in porn isn’t. We aren’t talking about returning money because women are exploited but because they were molested. Can you say for certain that worse didn’t happen.?

You are twisting a discussion about sexual assault into an attack on a woman who claims to be a feminist and, by extension, feminism itself. Why?

[floo]

The exploitation of women, by women is somehow better than the exploitation of women by men?

It is wrong to take money from the likes of Sullivan, but presumably it is ok to take money from the likes of Brady?

Better to return money from allegedly sleazy men, than to spend it on sick kids, 'cos it was allegedly made exploiting women?

If you answer yes to those, so be it, but please stop trying to imply that these valid questions are "whataboutery", or irrelevant.

Woman do exploit men,  but not as much as men exploit women as they have done throughout history. The Bible is full of tales of men treating women in an abominable way, including the god character who supposedly got the unmarried Mary, probably a young teenager, pregnant!

[Rhiannon]

1. They will not
2. They will not
3. They will not

Aside. No that is silly. To make it legal to sell something but illegal to buy it, is ridiculous.

Nice. Is this what you tell your daughter to expect - harassment and assault because men just can’t help themselves?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

The women at the event were not exploited, they were assaulted. As NS says, that is illegal. Consensually appearing in porn isn’t. We aren’t talking about returning money because women are exploited but because they were molested. Can you say for certain that worse didn’t happen.?

You are twisting a discussion about sexual assault into an attack on a woman who claims to be a feminist and, by extension, feminism itself. Why?

Then why has nobody complained to the police?