Sexual Abuse and Prominent People

[Nearly Sane]

Several allegations. Google it - lots of women speaking up.

plus we have an all male evening with hostesses dressed specifically to demand and none of that is at question.

[Rhiannon]

I’ve been to dozens of corporate/fundraising events over the years. Most have hosts/hostesses whose job it is to direct people to their table, get drinks, sell raffle tickets, collect question sheets (a lot have been quiz nights - David Mitchell is a fab quiz master) and generally smile a lot. The agency for this event also provided services to big corporations.

The women at this event knew barely 48 hrs before the event that there were ‘stipulations’; to pull out then might mean not getting more work. The non disclosure agreement and confiscation of phones wasn’t announced til they got there.

[wigginhall]

It's about level of consciousness, isn't it?  If you are used to this kind of stuff, you wouldn't see it as wrong, (I'm talking about the men).   Your sub-culture may well validate it in tiny ways,  and there's no disruption to to it.   Well, there is now!

[Humph Warden Bennett]

It's about level of consciousness, isn't it?  If you are used to this kind of stuff, you wouldn't see it as wrong, (I'm talking about the men).   Your sub-culture may well validate it in tiny ways,  and there's no disruption to to it.   Well, there is now!

Wiggy

Do you seriously think that I have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you think that working class men have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you?

[Nearly Sane]

Wiggy

Do you seriously think that I have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you think that working class men have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you?

Is there a relevance to the idea that it's not just middle-class men who are pervs?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I’ve been to dozens of corporate/fundraising events over the years. Most have hosts/hostesses whose job it is to direct people to their table, get drinks, sell raffle tickets, collect question sheets (a lot have been quiz nights - David Mitchell is a fab quiz master) and generally smile a lot. The agency for this event also provided services to big corporations.

The women at this event knew barely 48 hrs before the event that there were ‘stipulations’; to pull out then might mean not getting more work. The non disclosure agreement and confiscation of phones wasn’t announced til they got there.

48 hours is adequate notice. You have obviously never worked in security, where you can be give minus two hours notice.

And YES women work in security too. And YES they are paid the same rate as are the men.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Is there a relevance to the idea that it's not just middle-class men who are pervs?

That is an obvious wind up, which I am going to ignore.

 

[Rhiannon]

48 hours is adequate notice. You have obviously never worked in security, where you can be give minus two hours notice.

And YES women work in security too. And YES they are paid the same rate as are the men.

Women hating, women blaming.

[Nearly Sane]

That is an obvious wind up, which I am going to ignore.

 

No, it isn't a wind up. What relevance is there to saying that this might happen in a working men's club?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Women hating, women blaming.

And what is the relevance of that emotive comment?

[Rhiannon]

Wiggy

Do you seriously think that I have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you think that working class men have ever been invited to such an event?

Do you?

To be fair I don’t think in your case it’s because you’ve been exposed to a culture where sexual harassment is normalised. I just think you dislike women.

[Nearly Sane]

48 hours is adequate notice. You have obviously never worked in security, where you can be give minus two hours notice.

And YES women work in security too. And YES they are paid the same rate as are the men.

So when you worked in security, they told you to wear which colour of underwear?

[Rhiannon]

And what is the relevance of that emotive comment?

Because that’s what you are doing.

[Nearly Sane]

And what is the relevance of that emotive comment?

That you appear here to be happy with sexual assault. Because working class men do it too.

[Rhiannon]

That you appear here to be happy with sexual assault. Because working class men do it too.

And he’s absolving men of all blame.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

No, it isn't a wind up. What relevance is there to saying that this might happen in a working men's club?

If a stripdancer was groped in a working mens club, the groper would be thrown out & barred from the club.

So how comes the alleged gropers were not barred from the rich mens club?

[Nearly Sane]

If a stripdancer was groped in a working mens club, the groper would be thrown out & barred from the club.

So how comes the alleged gropers were not barred from the rich mens club?

So no one in a working men's  club has been groped without action being taken?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So when you worked in security, they told you to wear which colour of underwear?

They told me that I could not wear a beard.

My face was on show. So I had to abide by their rules. Nightclub hostesses, who are I understand paid rather more than I was per hour, were given underwear as part of their uniform.

[Nearly Sane]

And he’s absolving men of all blame.

To be fair, I think he's saying that women are asking for it so while the men may be wrong, it's lessened by all the dressing up in specific underwear

[Sriram]

I’ve been to dozens of corporate/fundraising events over the years. Most have hosts/hostesses whose job it is to direct people to their table, get drinks, sell raffle tickets, collect question sheets (a lot have been quiz nights - David Mitchell is a fab quiz master) and generally smile a lot. The agency for this event also provided services to big corporations.

The women at this event knew barely 48 hrs before the event that there were ‘stipulations’; to pull out then might mean not getting more work. The non disclosure agreement and confiscation of phones wasn’t announced til they got there.

Why the heck are women required in an all men's event to just smile, direct people to tables etc? Can't men smile and direct people to tables?

This fact itself is suggestive of women being considered as objects of beauty (in men's view), pleasant to be seen around.  That is where it begins. The groping  cannot be far behind!

And the fact that women are willing to submit themselves to such indignity, being well aware of such possibilities, is also interesting. Saying that its all for the money doesn't really help.

[Nearly Sane]

They told me that I could not wear a beard.

My face was on show. So I had to abide by their rules. Nightclub hostesses, who are I understand paid rather more than I was per hour, were given underwear as part of their uniform.

So people paid more than you at that time can be groped. What an IDD idea!

[Humph Warden Bennett]

So no one in a working men's  club has been groped without action being taken?

Usually the offender was asked to leave, and then invited to a disciplinary hearing.

Hey, you claim to be a working class Londoner, and you do not know how Working Mens Clubs operate?

[Nearly Sane]

Usually the offender was asked to leave, and then invited to a disciplinary hearing.

Hey, you claim to be a working class Londoner, and you do not know how Working Mens Clubs operate?

I have never claimed to be a working class Londoner. And I note you didn't answer the question.

[Rhiannon]

Why the heck are women required in an all men's event to just smile, direct people to tables etc? Can't men smile and direct people to tables?

This fact itself is suggestive of women being considered as objects of beauty (in men's view), pleasant to be seen around.  That is where it begins. The groping  cannot be far behind!

And the fact that women are willing to submit themselves to such indignity, being well aware of such possibilities, is also interesting. Saying that its all for the money doesn't really help.

I posted to explain that hosting/hostessing is a legitimate way to earn a living and that women applying for this job wouldn’t have known in advance the nature of what would be required of them. By the time they got any idea it was too late to pull out without signalling to the agency that they could be ‘unreliable’. And in the UK at the moment needing money is s very likely explanation as to why the women took the chance that they’d be protected - after all we do have workplace harassment laws and they should have been safe.

[Rhiannon]

They told me that I could not wear a beard.

My face was on show. So I had to abide by their rules. Nightclub hostesses, who are I understand paid rather more than I was per hour, were given underwear as part of their uniform.

Do you have even the faintest idea how utterly ridiculous this is?

Let’s think for a moment why women are told what colour underwear to wear. Oh yeah, because their uniform is so short that it will be on show. Is that normal in your line of work?

How much per hour do you think is reasonable for women who are being sexually assaulted?