It doesn't happen here...

[Walter]

So you agree that your earlier comment was inappropriate?

yes , what do want ? I should go out and whip myself 🙌

[Nearly Sane]

yes , what do want ? I should go out and whip myself 🙌

No, It's just that it happens so rarely that someone, particularly on here, admits they were wrong that I needed to check. Kudos to you for doing it!

[Walter]

No, It's just that it happens so rarely that someone, particularly on here, admits they were wrong that I needed to check. Kudos to you for doing it!

face it , deal with it , move on .

that has  served me well over the years NS 

[Nearly Sane]

Found this on the #MeToo thread on twitter. I half wish I could say I find the thread shocking but I don't.


https://medium.com/@hels/20-things-men-can-do-rtfn-to-support-women-beyond-just-literally-ceasing-to-sexually-harass-us-b06da5ff90f

[Rhiannon]

I know that if I'm open about my past it will be used against me, because it's already happened. Women can't speak out because if we do we get blamed, shamed and threatened. Even the justice system supports the blaming and shaming of women and actually of victims generally.

We should be able to talk about our experiences safely in an adult space such as this without fear. And we can't.

[Nearly Sane]

I think the issues with the justice system are where effort needed concentrated. I'm not sure I regard this forum as an adult space and indeed think of it more akin to a cross between a nursing home and a nursery.

[wigginhall]

I agree with Rhiannon that women get blamed for sexual assaults against them, which is in fact, a fresh assault.   However, I don't see the internet as a safe place at all, and I would not share some of my experiences and thoughts.   There are too many weirdos and trolls out there, and just nasty people.

[Rhiannon]

I agree, Wiggs, and yet if people can't speak out then abuse stats hidden.

It's not just sexual assault victims who get victim shamed, but dv victims too. And if they try to protect their kids they get accused of 'parental alienation' and the steps that they take to get help are used as evidence of that. And then the abuse continues, state sanctioned.

[Nearly Sane]

Had a weird few minutes elsewhere on social media where a friend had tried to start a Me Neither claim for men who could say they hadn't harassed any woman to show that not all men were dicks. Another female friend picked him up on it and I agreed that a self declaration of innocence was worthless. They came close to falling our, and the post has now been removed. Seems to me an odd reaction to #MeToo

[Robbie]

I come across domestic violence and various types of abuse in the course of my work. Agree completely that victims must speak out.
However I don't know that a "Religion and Ethics Forum" is the place for personal disclosures.
There could be a section  only seen by forum members, where members can offload and share but what worries me is that it might attract all sorts of bad advice from people not qualified to give advice.

There are forums dedicated to survivors of abuse and those in abusive relationships, with strict guidelines.

It's important never to give away anything that could identify us, such as precise location, profession, family. Apart from having a vague idea about where some posters live (e.g. Scotland, Wales, Greater London), I would not recognise anyone away from this forum and that's how it should be, to keep us private and safe.
---------
Just saw your post NS.  We know not all men are dicks, it's the few that are that cause problems & unfortunately they pop up in all walks & at all times of life.  Your F/B friend was silly to start such a claim, I daresay it was just a reaction & you won't hear more from him about it.

[Nearly Sane]

Mmm if it's only a few men then they are working very hard to sexually harass and assault quite how many women ate calling it out on #MeToo. Note I am not saying that all men are dicks but the idea that this'd is just a few men really doesn't chime with my experience.

[Rhiannon]

Mmm if it's only a few men then they are working very hard to sexually harass and assault quite how many women ate calling it out on #MeToo. Note I am not saying that all men are dicks but the idea that this'd is just a few men really doesn't chime with my experience.

Agree with this.

[Robbie]

Minority might be a better word than, "Few".
I don't know the statistics though - & would they be reliable if I did? I've come across many cases but they haven't jaundiced my view of men generally.  Most men are disgusted at the antics of some of their sex & feel ashamed.

(Has to be said that DV and sexual harassment is also carried out by women against men and boys. Less often but happens, equally disgusting. Often goes unreported.)

[Rhiannon]

I come across domestic violence and various types of abuse in the course of my work. Agree completely that victims must speak out.
However I don't know that a "Religion and Ethics Forum" is the place for personal disclosures.
There could be a section  only seen by forum members, where members can offload and share but what worries me is that it might attract all sorts of bad advice from people not qualified to give advice.

There are forums dedicated to survivors of abuse and those in abusive relationships, with strict guidelines.

It's important never to give away anything that could identify us, such as precise location, profession, family. Apart from having a vague idea about where some posters live (e.g. Scotland, Wales, Greater London), I would not recognise anyone away from this forum and that's how it should be, to keep us private and safe.
---------
Just saw your post NS.  We know not all men are dicks, it's the few that are that cause problems & unfortunately they pop up in all walks & at all times of life.  Your F/B friend was silly to start such a claim, I daresay it was just a reaction & you won't hear more from him about it.

Of course there are safety reasons as to why people have to be careful when disclosing things such as dv, but I've been open here about the fact I'm sexual assault whatever and I suspect most females are to some degree or other, and a fair few men too. And why the fuck should survivors *only* disclose on dedicated fora? Yes, I know that safety is some of it, but a whole load is also to do with the fact that is just isn't nice to think of someone you 'know' online as having gone through something that is pretty horrific to think about.

If 'unqualified advice' is such a concern then I suggest we ban all mention of MH problems here too. Or is to ok to disclose those do you think?

[Rhiannon]

For her book Kissing The Hag Emma Restall Orr asked 100 women if they had been raped. A third had, another third said that they had consented to unwanted sex in order to avoid rape - I suspect that by our understanding of rape now quite a few of the second category would count as rape victims. That's without those who had coercive sex in relationships.

[Rhiannon]

Safety Work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-41614720

[Robbie]

Of course there are safety reasons as to why people have to be careful when disclosing things such as dv, but I've been open here about the fact I'm sexual assault whatever and I suspect most females are to some degree or other, and a fair few men too. And why the fuck should survivors *only* disclose on dedicated fora? Yes, I know that safety is some of it, but a whole load is also to do with the fact that is just isn't nice to think of someone you 'know' online as having gone through something that is pretty horrific to think about.

If 'unqualified advice' is such a concern then I suggest we ban all mention of MH problems here too. Or is to ok to disclose those do you think?

Why are you having a go at me? I merely expressed my concerns about safety which I thought I was entitled to do but ultimately it's not up to me who posts what. I certainly didn't think I said anything to provoke such an outburst, very sorry though I didn't mean harm.

Perhaps I should stay away from such threads but they touch me too!

Goodnight.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see Rhiannin's post as having a go at you, Robinson. Just disagreeing strongly 

[Nearly Sane]

For her book Kissing The Hag Emma Restall Orr asked 100 women if they had been raped. A third had, another third said that they had consented to unwanted sex in order to avoid rape - I suspect that by our understanding of rape now quite a few of the second category would count as rape victims. That's without those who had coercive sex in relationships.

And most harassment and abuse will not approach rape.

[Rhiannon]

And most harassment and abuse will not approach rape.

Yes, absolutely.

I am so angry right now. Not with anyone in particular, but because this is how it is.

[floo]

Why are you having a go at me? I merely expressed my concerns about safety which I thought I was entitled to do but ultimately it's not up to me who posts what. I certainly didn't think I said anything to provoke such an outburst, very sorry though I didn't mean harm.

Perhaps I should stay away from such threads but they touch me too!

Goodnight.

Rhiannon made a good point, you are being far too touchy, I don't think she was having a go at you at all. 

[Nearly Sane]

Safety Work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-41614720

Janey Godley, comedian and Trump teaser, is promoting an idea that if you are a woman and see another woman sitting alone on public transport you sit with her. I have to admit that when I get on public transport and see a woman on her own Ithen try and find the seat furthest away looking away.

[Rhiannon]

We do things all the time. I vary my driving and dog walking routes. I don't like it if I see the same car in my rear view mirror for too long if I'm going down some of the more remote lanes round here. My dad has told me that he's pulled over when he's realised he keeps taking the same turnings as a lone female in front of him. On public transport it's earphones in, head down. Walking anywhere after dark, mobile phone in hand.

[Rhiannon]

Janey Godley, comedian and Trump teaser, is promoting an dea that if you are a woman and see another woman sitting alone on public transport you sit with her. I have to admit that when I get on public transport and see a woman on her own Ithen try and find the seat furthest away looking away.

As far away as possible isn't necessary. A few seats away, yes. No eye contact is preferable.

[Nearly Sane]

We do things all the time. I vary my driving and dog walking routes. I don't like it if I see the same car in my rear view mirror for too long if I'm going down some of the more remote lanes round here. My dad has told me that he's pulled over when he's realised he keeps taking the same turnings as a lone female in front of him. On public transport it's earphones in, head down. Walking anywhere after dark, mobile phone in hand.

Walking down a street at night with a woman ahead, I've stopped and tried to work out alternative routes, or speeded up at well lit bits to get ahead while looking away - which makes seeing where you are going a challenge