It doesn't happen here...

[Rhiannon]

The thing is we are expected to take responsibility for our own safety. Don't get drunk, don't wear 'provocative' clothing, get cabs home, wear shoes you can run in, don't draw attention to yourself, vary your route, don't walk home alone...and if/when something does happen then we think 'but I shouldn't have been there/worn that/done that, I wasn't being 'responsible'.'

[Rhiannon]

Walking down a street at night with a woman ahead, I've stopped and tried to work out alternative routes, or speeded up at well lit bits to get ahead while looking away - which makes seeing where you are going a challenge

So effectively your freedom is curtailed too. It's good that you are considerate though, it makes a difference.

[Nearly Sane]

So effectively your freedom is curtailed too. It's good that you are considerate though, it makes a difference.

I suppose you are right, it is a curtailment of my freedom. Just never thought of it that way. There was a time when I thought that I would get to a combination of age and respectability that I could ignore such considerations but I then realised that there is no such thing.

As an aside, my partner was a few years ago walking home late at night and a bloke asked if he could walk with her because he didn't know the area and it was a bit dodgy to be a single bloke walking on your own.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

The thing is we are expected to take responsibility for our own safety. Don't get drunk, don't wear 'provocative' clothing, get cabs home, wear shoes you can run in, don't draw attention to yourself, vary your route, don't walk home alone...and if/when something does happen then we think 'but I shouldn't have been there/worn that/done that, I wasn't being 'responsible'.'

True. I do all these things because I am aware there are entitled, predatory people out there and I can't distinguish them from non-predatory people and I might not have time to react fast enough to prevent something bad happening once I am aware of someone's intentions. But there are times I don't even think about this stuff because I feel safe in a particular situation or environment. Similar to most women I have been assaulted in some way - the first time was probably age 8 and walking home from school with a friend after a club and seeing a man leaning against a tree masturbating and asking us our names. But even younger than that 2 boys called me racist names and spat in my face.

It makes me aware of dangers - I think I have just accepted the world can be a dangerous or unpleasant place for everyone and whatever can be done to train people not to behave in a predatory way towards other is to be welcomed. I do not know why some people have a predatory instinct while others do not.

In terms of driving, if I am driving an expensive car I don't worry about being attacked because I am a woman, I think that I might get car-jacked because of the car - so I take precautions. I feel the same way if I have an expensive item on me. Any precautions I take are based on my assessment of my ability to defend myself if a situation occurred - and being smaller than a lot of other people I probably have to take extra precautions that my husband does not have to worry about.

[Harrowby Hall]

So effectively your freedom is curtailed too. It's good that you are considerate though, it makes a difference.

As an aside, my partner was a few years ago walking home late at night and a bloke asked if he could walk with her because he didn't know the area and it was a bit dodgy to be a single bloke walking on your own.

Perhaps the least satisfactory aspect of being a man today is that you are constantly an object of suspicion. I assume that it is a problem created by the gutter press.

Pretty well all the men that I come in contact with (as a man) are decent, considerate, caring individuals, but if, for instance, we see a child in distress we are frequently reluctant to offer help because - as everyone knows who reads the Daily Grot - there is a paedophile waiting on every street corner. I am male, and that is the sole qualification for being suspect. If I come to the aid of a woman in distress, I have an ulterior motive in offering help.

[floo]

Perhaps the least satisfactory aspect of being a man today is that you are constantly an object of suspicion. I assume that it is a problem created by the gutter press.

Pretty well all the men that I come in contact with (as a man) are decent, considerate, caring individuals, but if, for instance, we see a child in distress we are frequently reluctant to offer help because - as everyone knows who reads the Daily Grot - there is a paedophile waiting on every street corner. I am male, and that is the sole qualification for being suspect. If I come to the aid of a woman in distress, I have an ulterior motive in offering help.

I agree it is sad that all men appear to be tarred with the same brush.

[Maeght]

Yes. As part of my last job we received sexism, racism etc awareness training. When the trainer heard we had a lone female working in my lab she stated that that female must feel isolated and threatened, not might or could but must.  I said I didn't think she did and was told I was wrongas she was bound to.

[Shaker]

Yes. As part of my last job we received sexism, racism etc awareness training. When the trainer heard we had a lone female working in my lab she stated that that female must feel isolated and threatened, not might or could but must.  I said I didn't think she did and was told I was wrongas she was bound to.

It's one of the standard tropes of feminism a la Julie Bindel and her ilk that people (especially women) are victims if and only if and when Bindel says they are victims. What the people themselves say is wholly irrelevant.

[Walter]

It's one of the standard tropes of feminism a la Julie Bindel and her ilk that people (especially women) are victims if and only if and when Bindel says they are victims. What the people themselves say is wholly irrelevant.

when I had a proper job some years ago I was required to asses performance of the team members , half of whom were women
This involved the two of us spending hours together in a car covering a large geographical area. On one occasion it was late afternoon and the very attractive woman in her mid thirties decided she wanted to change her snagged tights. I was driving and said I would find a convenient place to stop so she could do it
She said not to bother ,she would do it while we were travelling. She took a new pack from her bag, took her shoes off , put her feet up on the dashboard , pulled her skirt up round her waist lifted her bum off the seat and wriggled her tights over her knees complete with caught up knickers until they were off her legs .

I was trying not to look and in my shocked amazement almost hit the car in front.
She made some jokey comment about her knickers coming off in the procedure then carried on putting the new tights on without pants .

I never told anyone at work about this incident for fear of incriminating myself and putting my job at risk.

Do you think I was a victim in this case ?

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps the least satisfactory aspect of being a man today is that you are constantly an object of suspicion. I assume that it is a problem created by the gutter press.

Pretty well all the men that I come in contact with (as a man) are decent, considerate, caring individuals, but if, for instance, we see a child in distress we are frequently reluctant to offer help because - as everyone knows who reads the Daily Grot - there is a paedophile waiting on every street corner. I am male, and that is the sole qualification for being suspect. If I come to the aid of a woman in distress, I have an ulterior motive in offering help.

This reads to me that women are concerned for their safety bevause of an irrational fear created by the 'gutter press'?

[floo]

I go for my daily walk about 6-45am, at this time of year it is quite dark, it never has occurred to me to be concerned about my safety, I don't even take my phone. I do carry my walking stick, which I would put to good use, if absolutely necessary.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Perhaps the least satisfactory aspect of being a man today is that you are constantly an object of suspicion. I assume that it is a problem created by the gutter press.

Pretty well all the men that I come in contact with (as a man) are decent, considerate, caring individuals, but if, for instance, we see a child in distress we are frequently reluctant to offer help because - as everyone knows who reads the Daily Grot - there is a paedophile waiting on every street corner. I am male, and that is the sole qualification for being suspect. If I come to the aid of a woman in distress, I have an ulterior motive in offering help.

I wouldn't automatically assume that any man coming to my aid had an ulterior motive but it would not be sensible to rule out that possibility and take sensible precautions. I would say something similar about women - they could have ulterior motives so it would be wise to take sensible precautions and not be too trusting of women. 

[Walter]

I go for my daily walk about 6-45am, at this time of year it is quite dark, it never has occurred to me to be concerned about my safety, I don't even take my phone. I do carry my walking stick, which I would put to good use, if absolutely necessary.

so violence is okay then ?

[Maeght]

Self defence is different from retribution.

[Shaker]

so violence is okay then ?

Sometimes it is indeed okay.

Violence would be going out in public with a walking stick looking to hit someone, either to rob them or simply to assault them just because.

Defending yourself with a walking stick with reasonable force from someone attacking you is an entirely different thing. Most people understand this; the law certainly recognises it.

In any case you certainly seem to think that violence is sometimes okay, since twice on this thread you've referred to resorting to it:

My daughter who lives and works in a global company has finally managed to bring a case against her line manager who was causing her considerable distress to the extent I was prepared to visit her place of work and sort it out for good

In my daughters case she was frequently sent moving cartoon images of an ejaculating penis 
If he had sent hem to me I would have ripped his off

[Walter]

Sometimes it is indeed okay.

Violence would be going out in public with a walking stick looking to hit someone, either to rob them or simply to assault them just because.

Defending yourself with a walking stick with reasonable force from someone attacking you is an entirely different thing. Most people understand this; the law certainly recognises it.

In any case you certainly seem to think that violence is sometimes okay, since twice on this thread you've referred to resorting to it:

yes , the comment was sarcastically directed at Floo !

[floo]

Self defence is different from retribution.

Exactly, I would only use force in order to protect myself or my family from someone who was being physically threatening in the here and now. Violent retribution is NEVER acceptable.

[Rhiannon]

I go for my daily walk about 6-45am, at this time of year it is quite dark, it never has occurred to me to be concerned about my safety, I don't even take my phone. I do carry my walking stick, which I would put to good use, if absolutely necessary.

I got my dog to protect me while walking (partly, also because I love him to bits) and always have my phone, but that's because there's a lot of poachers and hare coursers around here and bumping into those guys alone and unprotected is not a good idea for anyone, male or female.

Also if I fell and hurt myself badly then I'd need my phone, and in the wet and mud that's by far the most likely danger.

[jeremyp]

Yes. As part of my last job we received sexism, racism etc awareness training. When the trainer heard we had a lone female working in my lab she stated that that female must feel isolated and threatened, not might or could but must.  I said I didn't think she did and was told I was wrongas she was bound to.

Was she the only person in your lab not on the sexism, racism etc training course?

[Maeght]

Was she the only person in your lab not on the sexism, racism etc training course?

No, we all went but not at the same time.

[Nearly Sane]

The sad thing to me is that we leave this thread about everyday sexual harrasment  and assault because of the 'famous' people and whose knee they touched.

[Sassy]

I read through quickly.

Some of the things like hitch hiking or allowing those to get away with exposing themselves to keep
a job or fondling being allowed makes me sick.
What is wrong with those women. I would never hitch hike. Reported a flasher. Would have never wanted a job where someone sexually harrassed or tried to touch me up. A swift kick in the balls would have more than sufficed and a call to the cops.

YOU CANNOT COMPLAIN IF YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP IT HAPPENING OR PHONE THE POLICE.

My blood boiled because the stupid bloody women allowed them to get away with it.   Once people do nothing they go on to make more victims. Have some bloody self respect. A job is not worth sexual harrassment or assault. 


Don't complain about it, if you do nothing to bloody stop it.

I hope someone on the thread other myself have pointed these things out.

[Aruntraveller]

I don't think it is as simple as that Sassy. Some women may not be in a position where they can afford to lose a job. From reading reports others have reported it and were not taken seriously. I don't think an accusation of inaction is helpful or even relevant in these cases.

[Walter]

I read through quickly.

Some of the things like hitch hiking or allowing those to get away with exposing themselves to keep
a job or fondling being allowed makes me sick.
What is wrong with those women. I would never hitch hike. Reported a flasher. Would have never wanted a job where someone sexually harrassed or tried to touch me up. A swift kick in the balls would have more than sufficed and a call to the cops.

YOU CANNOT COMPLAIN IF YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP IT HAPPENING OR PHONE THE POLICE.

My blood boiled because the stupid bloody women allowed them to get away with it.   Once people do nothing they go on to make more victims. Have some bloody self respect. A job is not worth sexual harrassment or assault. 


Don't complain about it, if you do nothing to bloody stop it.

I hope someone on the thread other myself have pointed these things out.

Sassy, I like your spirit and probably for the first time , I agree with you 👍

[Nearly Sane]

Sassy, I like your spirit and probably for the first time , I agree with you 👍

Yes, anyone who feels too scared to come forward after being raped should be blamed for that. (For the avoidance of doubt and given the misreading of some other comments elsewhere, that is me being sarcastic)