It doesn't happen here...

[Rhiannon]

Yes, too scared, to ashamed, to shellshocked...let’s blame every victim of sexual and domestic abuse if they don’t speak out, after all our court systems are outstandingly good and fair and nobody will judge them.

(Guess what that’s me being).

[floo]

I read through quickly.

Some of the things like hitch hiking or allowing those to get away with exposing themselves to keep
a job or fondling being allowed makes me sick.
What is wrong with those women. I would never hitch hike. Reported a flasher. Would have never wanted a job where someone sexually harrassed or tried to touch me up. A swift kick in the balls would have more than sufficed and a call to the cops.

YOU CANNOT COMPLAIN IF YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP IT HAPPENING OR PHONE THE POLICE.

My blood boiled because the stupid bloody women allowed them to get away with it.   Once people do nothing they go on to make more victims. Have some bloody self respect. A job is not worth sexual harrassment or assault. 


Don't complain about it, if you do nothing to bloody stop it.

I hope someone on the thread other myself have pointed these things out.

Have you ever been sexually harassed or abused? If you haven't maybe you wouldn't find it so easy to report it, so DON'T condemn those who didn't come forward until now.

I was touched up by the pastor of our pentecostal church when I was 14, I did report it to my parents but I was told I was making it up!

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, too scared, to ashamed, to shellshocked...let’s blame every victim of sexual and domestic abuse if they don’t speak out, after all our court systems are outstandingly good and fair and nobody will judge them.

(Guess what that’s me being).

Well I'm going with being empathetic, and sensible.

[Walter]

Yes, anyone who feels too scared to come forward after being raped should be blamed for that. (For the avoidance of doubt and given the misreading of some other comments elsewhere, that is me being sarcastic)

you and I obviously view this subject differently

[Nearly Sane]

you and I obviously view this subject differently

Yes, I think blaming someone who was raped for being  too scared and traumatised to report it is wrong, whereas you think that it is right.

[Walter]

Yes, I think blaming someone who was raped for being  too scared and traumatised to report it is wrong, whereas you think that it is right.

I have very little sympathy for weak people . You will say I'm wrong , I will say you are wrong .I do not feel the same about people as you do but my judgement has equal value to yours ,although you will take the moral ''high ground'' in the matter and claim you are a better person than me.


off you go...........

[Nearly Sane]

I have very little sympathy for weak people . You will say I'm wrong , I will say you are wrong .I do not feel the same about people as you do but my judgement has equal value to yours ,although you will take the moral ''high ground'' in the matter and claim you are a better person than me.


off you go...........

You know, if you want to try poisoning the well by stating what someone is going to say and try and portray them as somehow at fault, it"s useful to beat least reasonably confident about what their position is. I don't think morality is objective.

I think your idea that someone who gets raked is weak because they are traumatised, is simplistic though.

[wigginhall]

Ah, a nice bit of victim blaming, it takes me back to the good old days.

[Walter]

You know, if you want to try poisoning the well by stating what someone is going to say and try and portray them as somehow at fault, it"s useful to beat least reasonably confident about what their position is. I don't think morality is objective.

I think your idea that someone who gets raked is weak because they are traumatised, is simplistic though.

quite right , I was off on one, although  'strong people '' are rarely targeted, there would be little point in the eyes of the aggressor .

[Rhiannon]

quite right , I was off on one, although  'strong people '' are rarely targeted, there would be little point in the eyes of the aggressor .

Then you don't understand the mind of the abuser very well.

[Walter]

Then you don't understand the mind of the abuser very well.

tbh, I have very little interest in subject really.

[Rhiannon]

tbh, I have very little interest in subject really.

Few of us do until it becomes a necessity.

[Robbie]

Walter you have little understanding of people who may be by nature rather timid and shy - not necessarily weak.  How sexual assault can happen in many forms and take someone quite by surprise so that they freeze.  Then there is trying to prove it.  A violent rape can usually be proven but not the more subtle kinds of sexual abuse.

Many of us here including me have encountered unwanted sexual attention (talk, groping, more), when we were younger but I also did when I was older.

A few years ago I experienced something at the hands of a doctor. It happened during an examination/treatment and came quite out of the blue.  I was so shocked my mind went off somewhere else, afterwards I went home and was completely numb.  For a couple of days it was as if I was in a dream. I didn't do anything about it because I knew I had no proof but I cancelled further appointments. No-one would call me weak, I tackled sexual harassment at work head on when I was an HR manager and in other situations, supporting others - still do sometimes.

After that happened I kept an eye on the local paper for a while to see if his name ever came up in connection with sexual assault in which case I would have spoken out. I felt guilty that I'd done nothing because someone else might suffer but quite honestly, how could I prove it? Plus I wanted to put it behind me.

Sometimes we are helpless.  Maybe it hasn't happened to you - (it does happen to men).  It's a shocking thing Walter.

[Rhiannon]

It doesn't matter if someone is whatever we think of as strong or not. Abuse usually comes out of the blue; in a position where it is sustained (marriage, family, the workplace) it can and does crack even the strongest person, men as well as women. And very often it comes from someone in a position of power (doctor, priest, boss) or someone who is able to manipulate themselves into a position of control (partner, parent, relative, friend).

And very often it comes from people in a position of trust - see above - which means that it is so hard to stay strong when trust in those who are supposed to look after people has gone.

[floo]

I totally agree with Robbie and Rhi's posts.

[Walter]

Walter you have little understanding of people who may be by nature rather timid and shy - not necessarily weak.  How sexual assault can happen in many forms and take someone quite by surprise so that they freeze.  Then there is trying to prove it.  A violent rape can usually be proven but not the more subtle kinds of sexual abuse.

Many of us here including me have encountered unwanted sexual attention (talk, groping, more), when we were younger but I also did when I was older.

A few years ago I experienced something at the hands of a doctor. It happened during an examination/treatment and came quite out of the blue.  I was so shocked my mind went off somewhere else, afterwards I went home and was completely numb.  For a couple of days it was as if I was in a dream. I didn't do anything about it because I knew I had no proof but I cancelled further appointments. No-one would call me weak, I tackled sexual harassment at work head on when I was an HR manager and in other situations, supporting others - still do sometimes.

After that happened I kept an eye on the local paper for a while to see if his name ever came up in connection with sexual assault in which case I would have spoken out. I felt guilty that I'd done nothing because someone else might suffer but quite honestly, how could I prove it? Plus I wanted to put it behind me.

Sometimes we are helpless.  Maybe it hasn't happened to you - (it does happen to men).  It's a shocking thing Walter.

That is truely awful and you have my sympathy

[Walter]

It doesn't matter if someone is whatever we think of as strong or not. Abuse usually comes out of the blue; in a position where it is sustained (marriage, family, the workplace) it can and does crack even the strongest person, men as well as women. And very often it comes from someone in a position of power (doctor, priest, boss) or someone who is able to manipulate themselves into a position of control (partner, parent, relative, friend).

And very often it comes from people in a position of trust - see above - which means that it is so hard to stay strong when trust in those who are supposed to look after people has gone.

i suppose being a bloke with my personality it would be difficult for someone to abuse me I that way
I do understand your position , please disregard my previous remark (I annoy myself sometimes )

[Walter]

Btw I posted a description of a true event some posts back that happened in my car which made me uncomfortable and nobody had anything to say about it !

[Robbie]

when I had a proper job some years ago I was required to asses performance of the team members , half of whom were women
This involved the two of us spending hours together in a car covering a large geographical area. On one occasion it was late afternoon and the very attractive woman in her mid thirties decided she wanted to change her snagged tights. I was driving and said I would find a convenient place to stop so she could do it
She said not to bother ,she would do it while we were travelling. She took a new pack from her bag, took her shoes off , put her feet up on the dashboard , pulled her skirt up round her waist lifted her bum off the seat and wriggled her tights over her knees complete with caught up knickers until they were off her legs .

I was trying not to look and in my shocked amazement almost hit the car in front.
She made some jokey comment about her knickers coming off in the procedure then carried on putting the new tights on without pants .

I never told anyone at work about this incident for fear of incriminating myself and putting my job at risk.

Do you think I was a victim in this case ?

Yes, she behaved badly. Her snagged tights were not so important that she had to take them and her knickers off in front of you, it could have waited. I understand why you never told anyone at work, it was really awkward for you.

[Rhiannon]

Btw I posted a description of a true event some posts back that happened in my car which made me uncomfortable and nobody had anything to say about it !

Tbh I didn’t know what to say. It’s a bit weird.

[Walter]

Tbh I didn’t know what to say. It’s a bit weird.

it certainly was, and when I read it back to myself it looks like I made it up but it definitely happened .
 Being in a superior position and  perceived power had an apparent effect on some of the women in my team to the extent I was propositioned on a number of occasions even though they were in relationships and they knew I was.
They knew i frequently stayed overnight in hotels  and made it clear to me they were available to join me  .
Would you call that sexual harassment? It definitely made me feel awkward.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, in my opinion, it amounts to harassment if it is unwanted. That you were in a position of power in some way could lessen the issue as opposed to someone in power acting that way. There have been similar occasions that I have experienced but I think there is a difference in the frequency, intent and balance of power generally with what so !any woman have suffered.

[Rhiannon]

it certainly was, and when I read it back to myself it looks like I made it up but it definitely happened .
 Being in a superior position and  perceived power had an apparent effect on some of the women in my team to the extent I was propositioned on a number of occasions even though they were in relationships and they knew I was.
They knew i frequently stayed overnight in hotels  and made it clear to me they were available to join me  .
Would you call that sexual harassment? It definitely made me feel awkward.

Yes it’s a form of harassment. My first thought on reading it - and the account of Tights Woman - is how vulnerable you were to false allegations if you knocked them back.

[Walter]

Yes, in my opinion, it amounts to harassment if it is unwanted. That you were in a position of power in some way could lessen the issue as opposed to someone in power acting that way. There have been similar occasions that I have experienced but I think there is a difference in the frequency, intent and balance of power generally with what so !any woman have suffered.

okay , I understand where you are coming from but you try to diminish the seriousness  of these acts by pointing out who has ''the balance of power''

I would suggest the women in my case were fully aware of the potential  power they  held and were attempting to entrap me with sex. Imagine the control they would have had over me if I had fallen for their little game.
Also  ,the destruction it could have caused at home if my partner had found out either by accident or from one of them . some of these women were like wild cats with sharp claws , which was a good quality to have bearing in mind the nature of the business we were in .

But who knows where it could have ended up if id gone along with it ?


forgot to mention , they knew I carried with me a company cheque book and was authorised to write cheques to the value of 100,000 pounds per day  plus a company credit card for sundry items  hmmm.......?

[Walter]

Yes it’s a form of harassment. My first thought on reading it - and the account of Tights Woman - is how vulnerable you were to false allegations if you knocked them back.

Yes it was , but you qualify it by saying, a form of harassment , which seems to lessen its effect .