Spirit photography

[ippy]

Yes....even I was sitting next to my father and FIL as they passed away....and I did not see anything leaving the body. If we could actually see the soul/spirit we wouldn't be discussing it in this manner would we?!

We cannot see or hear or feel the spirit/soul and that's the whole point. It is said that, under some special circumstances, especially if the person who died is fairly young, the soul can be felt or even seen.  These are unknown phenomena...so going into intricate details is not meaningful.

In the first video the guys on the scene obviously did not 'see' anything. But one of them seems to have felt something as he extended his hand through the soul ....or so it seemed to me. 

Also FYI, black souls mean not very evolved souls (more selfish) while white soul means more developed and loving. 

Maybe the videos are fake...but since I believe in souls/spirits and life after death...I have no reason to assume so.  Souls are normal!

You are very welcome to your world of rather strange ideas Sriram, we also used to think that the sun revolved around the earth, no one has managed to put forward anything at any time founded on a realistic base that might confirm that idea, for that's all you have, an idea and it's still only an idea no matter how many share your idea with you; unless of course?

It's not very rational to think that because billions share an idea that makes it true, you often allude to how deeply thoughtful you are; what happened here?

Kind regards ippy

[Sriram]

These are mindset issues. If anyone was suitable inclined there is enough evidence for an after life.  For those of a habitually skeptical frame of mind, no evidence is possible.

[Sriram]

Jusr ask yourself, why is the "soul" in the film vaguely human shaped?

Why shouldn't it be vaguely human shaped?  It obviously would be I would think. Most ghosts and spirits are said to be human shaped!   

[Walter]

These are mindset issues. If anyone was suitable inclined there is enough evidence for an after life.  For those of a habitually skeptical frame of mind, no evidence is possible.

mind set issues are a nonsense and are irrelevant . what can determine truth is empirical evidence validated by use of the scientific method.
You can chose not to believe the validity of the results if you want but hat does not affect their truth.

f=ma   is a truth  and whatever you think of that is irrelevant.

[Walter]

Why shouldn't it be vaguely human shaped?  It obviously would be I would think. Most ghosts and spirits are said to be human shaped!

do ghosts wear clothes?    can animals become ghosts? what are ghosts made of?  can we put a ghost in a jar and measure its properties? can they be used as organ donors? where can I get one from ?  do they make good pets?

[Sriram]

mind set issues are a nonsense and are irrelevant . what can determine truth is empirical evidence validated by use of the scientific method.
You can chose not to believe the validity of the results if you want but hat does not affect their truth.

f=ma   is a truth  and whatever you think of that is irrelevant.

No...till something is established as Truth...it remains a mindset issue. Even F=MA need not be the truth at subatomic levels or at cosmic levels. Many  scientific ideas remain a hypothesis or as a philosophical conjecture even today.

Truth is a strange thing and we only see what we are able to see at any point of time. This is both due to sensory limitations and mindset issues.

Phenomena such as the after-life are in that grey area where they are not yet established as fact but they cannot be dismissed from real life either.

[ippy]

Why shouldn't it be vaguely human shaped?  It obviously would be I would think. Most ghosts and spirits are said to be human shaped!

You can imagine a soul to be any shape you like Sriram, just as you have done already.

ippy

[Walter]

No...till something is established as Truth...it remains a mindset issue. Even F=MA need not be the truth at subatomic levels or at cosmic levels. Many  scientific ideas remain a hypothesis or as a philosophical conjecture even today.

Truth is a strange thing and we only see what we are able to see at any point of time. This is both due to sensory limitations and mindset issues.

Phenomena such as the after-life are in that grey area where they are not yet established as fact but they cannot be dismissed from real life either.

if you want me to get into quantum mechanics I can , I use Newton's law as an example of what we experience in our lives every day

I think the only person here with 'mindset issues ' is you. You display it  frequently and because of it you cannot see it .

[Sriram]

if you want me to get into quantum mechanics I can , I use Newton's law as an example of what we experience in our lives every day

I think the only person here with 'mindset issues ' is you. You display it  frequently and because of it you cannot see it .

Alright....let us leave it at that then!  Thanks.

[ippy]

These are mindset issues. If anyone was suitable inclined there is enough evidence for an after life.  For those of a habitually skeptical frame of mind, no evidence is possible.

Why would there be a difference between the evidence needed to prove a point to one set of people to the evidence needed to prove a point to another; 'type of person'?

Perhaps your post would make more sense if it read:

"These are mindset issues. If anyone was suitably inclined there is enough evidence for an after life.  For those of a habitually gullible frame of mind, any, supposed, evidence would deem an afterlife possible".

Surly you can see where there is no evidence available to prove an idea, such as in this case, spirits, it's equally as viable to put forward the idea of a belief in unicorns, leprechauns or say 'Star Trek' as well as your spirit idea, and they will all be equally as credible as each other as ideas.

Think about it Sriram, Bertrand Russell's, tea pot.

Regards ippy

P. S. Could you send us some of your lovely Indian weather, please asap?

[Sriram]

Why would there be a difference between the evidence needed to prove a point to one set of people to the evidence needed to prove a point to another; 'type of person'?

Perhaps your post would make more sense if it read:

"These are mindset issues. If anyone was suitably inclined there is enough evidence for an after life.  For those of a habitually gullible frame of mind, any, supposed, evidence would deem an afterlife possible".

Surly you can see where there is no evidence available to prove an idea, such as in this case, spirits, it's equally as viable to put forward the idea of a belief in unicorns, leprechauns or say 'Star Trek' as well as your spirit idea, and they will all be equally as credible as each other as ideas.

Think about it Sriram, Bertrand Russell's, tea pot.

Regards ippy

P. S. Could you send us some of your lovely Indian weather, please asap?

I have thought about it ippy...for many decades. I am convinced that there is an After-life and that I  (and you too) am a spirit residing temporarily  inside this body.  I have enough evidence...but not of the kind that I can show you or others.

Anyway this is not going to get resolved as easily as we would like.     I will keep saying what I think and you can keep saying what you think.

[Walter]

I have thought about it ippy...for many decades. I am convinced that there is an After-life and that I  (and you too) am a spirit residing temporarily  inside this body.  I have enough evidence...but not of the kind that I can show you or others.

Anyway this is not going to get resolved as easily as we would like.     I will keep saying what I think and you can keep saying what you think.

the issue there is , one of you is totally wrong and its so obvious who it is.

[ippy]

the issue there is , one of you is totally wrong and its so obvious who it is.

Walter, Sriram could be right but there's very little evidence to be found anywhere that would support his ideas, Russell's tea pot reigns supreme to my mind.

Most, well all of these ideas look decidedly man made to me, they come mostly from the bronze age and earlier where human kind were so advanced with their knowledge on all subjects; yes?

ippy 

[Sriram]

Walter, Sriram could be right but there's very little evidence to be found anywhere that would support his ideas, Russell's tea pot reigns supreme to my mind.

Most, well all of these ideas look decidedly man made to me, they come mostly from the bronze age and earlier where human kind were so advanced with their knowledge on all subjects; yes?

ippy

Well....thanks for allowing that little possibility.

Most western communities have for long associated spiritual issues with religion. This has led to considerable distrust and a complete dismissal of all spiritual aspects of life. Science VS Religion has been synonymous with Science VS Spirituality.  This is wrong.

Secular Spirituality has never hitherto been treated with any respect, unlike in India and the East.  If religious mythology is wrong all spirituality has to be wrong...has been the thinking in the West.

Once this attitude changes it is possible that spirituality could be viewed with some respect and some serious investigation would be conducted. Maybe in the coming generations it will happen!

[Walter]

Well....thanks for allowing that little possibility.

Most western communities have for long associated spiritual issues with religion. This has led to considerable distrust and a complete dismissal of all spiritual aspects of life. Science VS Religion has been synonymous with Science VS Spirituality.  This is wrong.

Secular Spirituality has never hitherto been treated with any respect, unlike in India and the East.  If religious mythology is wrong all spirituality has to be wrong...has been the thinking in the West.

Once this attitude changes it is possible that spirituality could be viewed with some respect and some serious investigation would be conducted. Maybe in the coming generations it will happen!

I watched Sue Perkins in her show about travelling down the Ganges river last night on the telly . After half an hour I had to turn it off, could not bear to listen to all that superstitious  bollocks any longer and all those people believe it , backward or what? 

[Sriram]

I watched Sue Perkins in her show about travelling down the Ganges river last night on the telly . After half an hour I had to turn it off, could not bear to listen to all that superstitious  bollocks any longer and all those people believe it , backward or what?

That is  religion, mythology and lot of superstition.  I agree.  I can't stand much of all that myself.

If you want to understand spirituality without the  religious stuff...go for Yoga or Vedanta.  Spirituality is essentially about what each of us is independent of the body and mind. 

[SusanDoris]

No...till something is established as Truth...it remains a mindset issue. Even F=MA need not be the truth at subatomic levels or at cosmic levels. Many  scientific ideas remain a hypothesis or as a philosophical conjecture even today.

Truth is a strange thing and we only see what we are able to see at any point of time. This is both due to sensory limitations and mindset issues.

Phenomena such as the after-life are in that grey area where they are not yet established as fact but they cannot be dismissed from real life either.

Mindset issues appears to bea a euphemism for imagination.

[ippy]

Mindset issues appears to bea a euphemism for imagination.

I'll go with you on this one Susan.

Regards ippy

[ippy]

I watched Sue Perkins in her show about travelling down the Ganges river last night on the telly . After half an hour I had to turn it off, could not bear to listen to all that superstitious  bollocks any longer and all those people believe it , backward or what?

It gives me the itch watching people swimming around and performing all sorts of ablutions effectively steeped in raw sewage, creepy, couldn't watch it.

ippy

[ippy]

That is  religion, mythology and lot of superstition.  I agree.  I can't stand much of all that myself.

If you want to understand spirituality without the  religious stuff...go for Yoga or Vedanta.  Spirituality is essentially about what each of us is independent of the body and mind.

Something I can speak about with experience that you could if you wanted to scale up to most things in life, I wear hearing aids one behind each ear, I take the off at night for obvious reasons and then put them back on/in each morning the sound they transmit into my ears is a rather tinny sound and it would be reasonably easy for any competent sound engineer to prove that the tinny sound the small speakers transmit to my ears will remain the same tinny sound for all of the time I'm wearing them.

But no, guess what, my brain, independently of anything I can control, turns the sound into an approximation of whatever it thinks the sounds it's dealing with should sound like and to me these sounds are no longer tinny sounds, to me, they all sound as warm and natural as my brain thinks they should be.

One of the jobs our brains do without any prompting is to make every effort to make sense of its surroundings, lots of things in our short lives don't necessarily make sense and I'm sure a part of these, senseless to me, religious or ideas spiritual, dependent on your take on the meaning of spiritual, are partly made up by our brains again trying to make sense of this world we all live in, nothing mystical about it, although I must concede it looks that way.

There's so much more to that simple statement of Russell's about the tea pot, than is immediately obvious.

Regards ippy 

[Walter]

That is  religion, mythology and lot of superstition.  I agree.  I can't stand much of all that myself.

If you want to understand spirituality without the  religious stuff...go for Yoga or Vedanta.  Spirituality is essentially about what each of us is independent of the body and mind.

I'm going to send my spirit off with a camera today to get some lovely shots of the autumn colours .
Il let you know the results later !

[Walter]

It gives me the itch watching people swimming around and performing all sorts of ablutions effectively steeped in raw sewage, creepy, couldn't watch it.

ippy

The Ganges Experience: come and bathe in shit , millions of people cant be wrong 

[Sriram]

Something I can speak about with experience that you could if you wanted to scale up to most things in life, I wear hearing aids one behind each ear, I take the off at night for obvious reasons and then put them back on/in each morning the sound they transmit into my ears is a rather tinny sound and it would be reasonably easy for any competent sound engineer to prove that the tinny sound the small speakers transmit to my ears will remain the same tinny sound for all of the time I'm wearing them.

But no, guess what, my brain, independently of anything I can control, turns the sound into an approximation of whatever it thinks the sounds it's dealing with should sound like and to me these sounds are no longer tinny sounds, to me, they all sound as warm and natural as my brain thinks they should be.

One of the jobs our brains do without any prompting is to make every effort to make sense of its surroundings, lots of things in our short lives don't necessarily make sense and I'm sure a part of these, senseless to me, religious or ideas spiritual, dependent on your take on the meaning of spiritual, are partly made up by our brains again trying to make sense of this world we all live in, nothing mystical about it, although I must concede it looks that way.

There's so much more to that simple statement of Russell's about the tea pot, than is immediately obvious.

Regards ippy

I don't see what all this has got to do with what I am saying.  I agree that Nature is remarkable and that is the point.

By crediting the brain with certain remarkable qualities you are only acknowledging that Nature is Intelligent.  There is a obvious Intelligence built into it which is what makes not just our brain and body but the whole of the eco system so unified and coordinated and regulated.

The brain is just a piece of flesh that begins to rot the moment life goes away.  So what is it that makes the brain and the body so full of life and intelligence? That is what spirituality addresses. It is not about religious practices or superstitious beliefs.

I came into this thread with the video of the soul that is seen leaving the body of the accident victim (I have no problem in assuming it is genuine and no reason to believe that it is fake). I consider that event as a very normal and natural part of life.  And that does not in any way conflict with your observation about the functioning of the brain.

[Shaker]

I came into this thread with the video of the soul that is seen leaving the body of the accident victim (I have no problem in assuming it is genuine and no reason to believe that it is fake).

And that in itself is a problem.

[Udayana]

And that in itself is a problem.

Well ... "I have no evidence to show that xxx is false" is a perfectly valid statement. It just doesn't say anything about the truth or not of xxx. Something can well be false even if you don't have a counter example to hand.
 
Sriram is just open to believing whatever suits him even without evidence - like most people most of the time.