Spirit photography

[ippy]

Just a thought, now we mostly use digital photography I haven't seen any goastie photos taken on the digital format, if we do get any I wonder what they may look like?

I guess it'll underline the tendency of the old chemically processed film to produce variations of the, should be even distribution, faultlessly even spread of chemicals over the whole of both the negatives and finished products.

It'll be interesting to see what the new digital ghosts look like.


ippy 

[Sriram]

No, they see the phenomena but don't jump to the conclusion that it is to do with ghosts etc

Alright...let us assume that you have similar experiences from tomorrow. 

Suddenly writings appear on your walls. You hear footsteps when there is no one around. The selfies you take with your wife include a strange third person in the frame.  You look into the mirror in your bathroom and see the reflection of some stranger standing behind you. Suddenly objects in the house get thrown about.  Doors are opened and banged when there is no breeze.

You and your family members observe all this.

What will be your line of investigation and what conclusions will you reach? 

[Sriram]

Just a thought, now we mostly use digital photography I haven't seen any goastie photos taken on the digital format, if we do get any I wonder what they may look like?

I guess it'll underline the tendency of the old chemically processed film to produce variations of the, should be even distribution, faultlessly even spread of chemicals over the whole of both the negatives and finished products.

It'll be interesting to see what the new digital ghosts look like.


ippy

The CCTV video of the accident victim I posted would be a digital one.

[SusanDoris]

Maeght, I was hoping you would appear to give me a scientific explanation.

C'mon now..... you're making Floo out to be a fibber.

There are hundreds, thousands of pieces of evidence with witnesses to poltergeist activity..... they can't all be making it up.

~consider this: amount of objective evidence for any poltergeist, spirit, ghost, etc = 0
amount of evidence for natural explanations = very high (I don't know percentages)
the correct and only answer for apparently unexplained phenomena = we don't know
the wrong answer, always, is poltergeist/spirit/ghost/fantasy-of-choice

The thing is, if you can't take on board the spiritual you can't get off the starting blocks with any of this.

Until you can identify and define *the spiritual* then it is you who cannot get started.

[Maeght]

Maeght, I was hoping you would appear to give me a scientific explanation.

No I'm not, I didn't refer to Floo but mentioned imagination as one possible cause. Even so, imagination is not the same as fibbing - you can imagine something and fully believe it.

There are hundreds, thousands of pieces of evidence with witnesses to poltergeist activity..... they can't all be making it up.

Why not? Not saying they are but why couldn't they all be made up? I have yet to see any evidence other than anecdotal evidence and stories. Show me something which can be examined and verified and that might be different.

The thing is, if you can't take on board the spiritual you can't get off the starting blocks with any of this.

If you go down the spiritual route then you won't get off the starting blocks of a proper investigation. If you have the spiritual in mind of course you will see these stories and phenomena as evidence to support that,

Lets see. In Hampton Court there is a corridor reputedly hunted by the ghost of Jane Seymour. People have reported feeling could at a certain spot in the corridor. What would you conclude from that?

[Walter]

Alright...let us assume that you have similar experiences from tomorrow. 

Suddenly writings appear on your walls. You hear footsteps when there is no one around. The selfies you take with your wife include a strange third person in the frame.  You look into the mirror in your bathroom and see the reflection of some stranger standing behind you. Suddenly objects in the house get thrown about.  Doors are opened and banged when there is no breeze.

You and your family members observe all this.

What will be your line of investigation and what conclusions will you reach?

someone is goin mad!

[Maeght]

You have no idea what you are talking about. We have had plenty of witnesses to the phenomena, including an author who was interviewing me for a BBC Radio programme.

I assume the reporter was interviewing you regarding the phenomena so would have had that in his mind to begin with, yes?

[Walter]

You have no idea what you are talking about. We have had plenty of witnesses to the phenomena, including an author who was interviewing me for a BBC Radio programme.

what was the radio programme called , ill look it up?

[SusanDoris]

You have no idea what you are talking about. We have had plenty of witnesses to the phenomena, including an author who was interviewing me for a BBC Radio programme.

Since there are no such things as any spirits etc etc, then although the explanation was not found, it remains a99.9(recurring)% certainty that it was perfectly natural.

[Sriram]

Since there are no such things as any spirits etc etc, then although the explanation was not found, it remains a99.9(recurring)% certainty that it was perfectly natural.

Ah! So...you usually start with the conclusion and then investigate accordingly?! Nice!

[Maeght]

Alright...let us assume that you have similar experiences from tomorrow. 

Suddenly writings appear on your walls. You hear footsteps when there is no one around. The selfies you take with your wife include a strange third person in the frame.  You look into the mirror in your bathroom and see the reflection of some stranger standing behind you. Suddenly objects in the house get thrown about.  Doors are opened and banged when there is no breeze.

You and your family members observe all this.

What will be your line of investigation and what conclusions will you reach?

A hypothetical scenario, but of course you would look to set up cameras around the house for example to see if this wall writing can be captured happening, whether objects do truly move with no one there etc. If these happenings can be captured by cameras or other sensors when the house is totally empty then this would be very interesting.

I work in an old building and there are often bangs and noises, sometimes quite loud. These are due to expansion and contraction of the building which have this effect due to its construction (metal framed, wooden boarding etc). This can be correlated with times of the day, presence of sun light on the buyilding etc which I am used to because I am there a lot of the time. People with a spiritual mind set who have been here at odd times have been spooked until I have explained this too them.

[Walter]

Since there are no such things as any spirits etc etc, then although the explanation was not found, it remains a99.9(recurring)% certainty that it was perfectly natural.

and if there were strange goings on the last person you want round your house would be a psychic and his sidekick investigating it .

' what is it Sam , I'm busy?'

[SusanDoris]

Ah! So...you usually start with the conclusion and then investigate accordingly?! Nice!

Well, you start with a conclusion too, but then you're stuck, and can go no further, because there are no observations, independent and repeatable, on which to base a hypothesis, and therefore tests or experiments cannot be done.

[Sriram]

A hypothetical scenario, but of course you would look to set up cameras around the house for example to see if this wall writing can be captured happening, whether objects do truly move with no one there etc. If these happenings can be captured by cameras or other sensors when the house is totally empty then this would be very interesting.

I work in an old building and there are often bangs and noises, sometimes quite loud. These are due to expansion and contraction of the building which have this effect due to its construction (metal framed, wooden boarding etc). This can be correlated with times of the day, presence of sun light on the buyilding etc which I am used to because I am there a lot of the time. People with a spiritual mind set who have been here at odd times have been spooked until I have explained this too them.

Everyone has lived in houses with creaking doors and banging windows and swaying tree branches.   That is very common and everyone is aware of such possibilities.

Hypothetically, if after installing cameras you have no clear idea about the footsteps or selfie images.... or you actually see the writings appear spontaneously or you see a dark grinning figure standing by your bedside when you wake at night and when you switch on the light there is no one there.. ......what will you conclude? 

[Udayana]

Kirlian photography seems to have died out.

It was investigated comprehensively but no useful theories developed. The effects were essentially electric field effects due to a number of natural, everyday, factors.

This popped up the other day, interesting in itself - not paranormal:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/flower-petals-have-blue-halos-attract-bees

[Robbie]

Floo:-  You have no idea what you are talking about. We have had plenty of witnesses to the phenomena, including an author who was interviewing me for a BBC Radio programme.

How did they find out about it? Was it for Radio 4 'Haunted' series?

[Maeght]

Everyone has lived in houses with creaking doors and banging windows and swaying tree branches.   That is very common and everyone is aware of such possibilities.

The point was that some people here asked if the place was haunted so despite what you say they headed down the spiritual route.

Hypothetically, if after installing cameras you have no clear idea about the footsteps or selfie images.... or you actually see the writings appear spontaneously or you see a dark grinning figure standing by your bedside when you wake at night and when you switch on the light there is no one there.. ......what will you conclude?

Hypothetically. I wouldn't conclude anything but would engage in further investigations. I wouldn't rule out ghosts etc but nor would I conclude it was ghosts but would file it as unexplained.

[ippy]

Hi everyone,

Atheists usually accuse believers of seeing things they want to see. From Floo's case it is clear that atheists and skeptics ignore and turn a blind eye to things that are staring them in the face ...just because they don't want to believe it.

What is the use of asking for evidence if you don't want to see it?

Cheers.

Sriram

No Sriram, it's nothing to do with whether I want to believe these things of yours or not, I have no reason to believe these ideas of yours mainly because there is nothing in the way of evidence that would make me want to think anything other than combined with the fact that they look so obviously man made to me and there's every indication that they are in fact man made ideas.

Then when you take a look at how far back so many of these ideas come from, those times were not exactly set at the summer times of easily available fountains of knowledge, more like at some of our leanest times in terms of knowledge and to top all of that just take a look at the magic, mystical and superstitional claims.

I could easily deal with any of it, if or when in the very unlikely event, of some sort of supportable evidence being found and supplied, I'll be as devout a believer as the next person.

Sorry Sriram, at the moment the magical, mystical and superstition based parts of all of that religious stuff is just plain daft, silly to me.

Douglas Adams quotes sum religion up for me, I wish I could put my words as skilfully as he did.

Regards ippy.

P. S. Don't forget we only disagree on ideas.

[Udayana]

Quite often we can't "see" stuff because we don't know it is there or don't have the equipment that could detect it: Dark matter, dark energy, gravitational waves, gorillas joining into basketball games ...

Quite often "evidence" reported anecdotally stops occurring once investigators arrive. This does not mean anything other than something may have happened that we don't have an off the shelf explanation for.

No experiments to investigate paranormal events/effects have confirmed any paranormal causes (at least, that I have come across in my limited experience).

[Sebastian Toe]

Ah! So...you usually start with the conclusion and then investigate accordingly?! Nice!

And you don't?

[ippy]

The CCTV video of the accident victim I posted would be a digital one.

Sriram, I'm certain you're seeing whatever it is you want to see, the incidents you're referring to would be so common place it'd hardly be worth commenting about if there were any substance in them, it isn't.

Regards ippy

[Maeght]

Yes but at one point he stopped the recording as he claimed to see a monk walking up and down the kitchen, I had seen that myself on a couple of occasions, but it had not been mentioned to the media.

Can you be sure he couldn'thave been aware of the monk story?

[Robbie]

Floo I asked in post 135 was the programme for BBC4's 'Haunting' series? Can we still get it or is it now archived?
You woz famous!

[Walter]

Yes but at one point he stopped the recording as he claimed to see a monk walking up and down the kitchen, I had seen that myself on a couple of occasions, but it had not been mentioned to the media.

so he goes to your place to talk about strange behaviour but stops the recording when he sees some . doesn't make sense !!!!!

[Robbie]

It wouldn't have been seen though, radio not TV.  He probably carried on recording floo and himself after recovering!

(Could have been Martians. I watched a bit of a film on TV this morning, a Hammer film, 'Quatermass and the Pit'.)