NHS targets

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a BBC article about the NHS and their targets.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41656667

************

The performance of hospitals across the UK has slumped with targets for cancer, A&E and planned operations now being missed en masse, BBC research shows.

Nationally England, Wales and Northern Ireland have not hit one of their three key targets for 18 months.

Only Scotland has had any success in the past 12 months - hitting its A&E target three times.

Ministers accepted growing demand had left the NHS struggling to keep up as doctors warned patients were suffering.

Ministers across the UK have been quick to point out that most people are still being seen in time.
B
ut the numbers waiting longer for care have been rising.

In A&E patients are now twice as likely to wait more than four hours than they were four years ago - 11% compared to 5%.

The proportion of people waiting over 62 days for cancer treatment has risen by a third in the past four years. Nearly one in five patients now wait longer.

The chances of delays before you have a planned operation or treatment, such as a hip replacement, has increased by nearly three-quarters in four years.

Currently 12% of patients wait longer than they should.

It means there are now over 500,000 people on hospital waiting lists in England, Wales and Northern Ireland that have waited too long. That compares to nearly 230,000 four years ago.

British Medical Association chair Dr Chaand Nagpaul said the situation highlighted by the BBC was "unacceptable".

He said while for some patients the delays were simply an "inconvenience", for many more they would have a "real impact on their treatment and outcome".

*************

Any views?

Sriram

[Nearly Sane]

Hi everyone,

Here is a BBC article about the NHS and their targets.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41656667

************

The performance of hospitals across the UK has slumped with targets for cancer, A&E and planned operations now being missed en masse, BBC research shows.

Nationally England, Wales and Northern Ireland have not hit one of their three key targets for 18 months.

Only Scotland has had any success in the past 12 months - hitting its A&E target three times.

Ministers accepted growing demand had left the NHS struggling to keep up as doctors warned patients were suffering.

Ministers across the UK have been quick to point out that most people are still being seen in time.
B
ut the numbers waiting longer for care have been rising.

In A&E patients are now twice as likely to wait more than four hours than they were four years ago - 11% compared to 5%.

The proportion of people waiting over 62 days for cancer treatment has risen by a third in the past four years. Nearly one in five patients now wait longer.

The chances of delays before you have a planned operation or treatment, such as a hip replacement, has increased by nearly three-quarters in four years.

Currently 12% of patients wait longer than they should.

It means there are now over 500,000 people on hospital waiting lists in England, Wales and Northern Ireland that have waited too long. That compares to nearly 230,000 four years ago.

British Medical Association chair Dr Chaand Nagpaul said the situation highlighted by the BBC was "unacceptable".

He said while for some patients the delays were simply an "inconvenience", for many more they would have a "real impact on their treatment and outcome".

*************

Any views?

Sriram

Tons of views, one of which would be that the comparisons across different devolved parts of the NHS which isn't one institution may be invalid. If we take the targets as valid then someone somewhere preferably in summertime should be for the chop. And yet the Health Secretary in England is one of the longest serving ever. 

The vast majority of political control on the NHS is tactical and even discussing these figures is tactical as well. It's very hard, if not impossible, for any party to have a strategic plan for the NHS at the moment. In part that's down to their own cowardice in putting anything forward, in part us the electorate and the rather unsubtle way we understand the issues. The big question for healthcare, as with most areas, is what do we do with technology and why.

[Harrowby Hall]

Yes, plenty.

Target setting appears to be a UK government interpretation of management by objectives. MbO is essentially a process whereby a manager and a subordinate arrive at a mutually-agreed combination of resource investment and consequent outcomes.

In the UK government model there appears to be no mutual agreement merely an arbitrary target imposed by politicians on practitioners. As time goes by the targets become more demanding - the rationale being that practice produces improvement in operations which thus become more "efficient".

Targets are almost always driven by efficiency, not effectiveness.

[Sriram]

For such a important subject (with NS and HH having tons of views) there don't seem to be many comments......   

[Walter]

For such a important subject (with NS and HH having tons of views) there don't seem to be many comments......   

there are as many solutions to the problems of the NHS as the number of people who use it and work in it.

[Sriram]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/heavily-pregnant-british-woman-told-to-prove-shes-from-the-uk-to-get-nhs-treatment-after-taking-polish-husbands-surname/ar-AAtMRfA?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

[Harrowby Hall]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/heavily-pregnant-british-woman-told-to-prove-shes-from-the-uk-to-get-nhs-treatment-after-taking-polish-husbands-surname/ar-AAtMRfA?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

This has nothing to do with targets, Sriram, but is a consequence of the paranoia, suspicion, xenophobic, petty-minded, insular, myopic terror spawned by an incompetently organised national referendum - originally intended to control the Neanderthal wing of the Conservative Party - which has unleashed a wave of national isolationism and intolerance known as Brexit.

[Walter]

This has nothing to do with targets, Sriram, but is a consequence of the paranoia, suspicion, xenophobic, petty-minded, insular, myopic terror spawned by an incompetently organised national referendum - originally intended to control the Neanderthal wing of the Conservative Party - which has unleashed a wave of national isolationism and intolerance known as Brexit.

whatever!!!!!!

I stood in some dog shit this morning ,,soddin' Brexit !

[Sriram]

This has nothing to do with targets, Sriram, but is a consequence of the paranoia, suspicion, xenophobic, petty-minded, insular, myopic terror spawned by an incompetently organised national referendum - originally intended to control the Neanderthal wing of the Conservative Party - which has unleashed a wave of national isolationism and intolerance known as Brexit.

I saw that article about the NHS and thought I could post it here...

Has the referendum spawned isolationism or is it the other way around....?!

[ekim]

whatever!!!!!!

I stood in some dog shit this morning ,,soddin' Brexit !

I stood in some Brexit this morning.  It's everywhere.  Soddin' dogs.

[Walter]

I stood in some Brexit this morning.  It's everywhere.  Soddin' dogs.

hahaha lol!

[Aruntraveller]

A little personal reflection. I have worked in the NHS for some 27 years now. The amount of political intervention is quite unmanageable. With every change of government, minister or in some case merely idealogical whim, the workforce, yet again, has to try and work out collectively just what is wanted by those in power.

All too frequently in the 27 years I mentioned, edicts arrive from on high with no clear instructions on how they should be implemented - leading to as many variations in working practices as there are members of staff within the organisation. On top of that, training in far too many areas is by osmosis rather than any structured formal training being put in place, again leading to variations that cause considerable divergence from any original guiding practices laid down.

Overlay that with blue sky thinking a lots of over picking of low hanging fruit, whilst trying to drive forward continual evolution of the NHS and you are on a hiding to nothing.

The NHS and the people who use it need a period of stability where processes aren't continually changed and where the staff can re-learn, and more importantly have the chance to understand, what the processes are there for. Namely to improve the care of patients. Instead of implementing changes simply because we HAVE to.

[Walter]

A little personal reflection. I have worked in the NHS for some 27 years now. The amount of political intervention is quite unmanageable. With every change of government, minister or in some case merely idealogical whim, the workforce, yet again, has to try and work out collectively just what is wanted by those in power.

All too frequently in the 27 years I mentioned, edicts arrive from on high with no clear instructions on how they should be implemented - leading to as many variations in working practices as there are members of staff within the organisation. On top of that, training in far too many areas is by osmosis rather than any structured formal training being put in place, again leading to variations that cause considerable divergence from any original guiding practices laid down.

Overlay that with blue sky thinking a lots of over picking of low hanging fruit, whilst trying to drive forward continual evolution of the NHS and you are on a hiding to nothing.

The NHS and the people who use it need a period of stability where processes aren't continually changed and where the staff can re-learn, and more importantly have the chance to understand, what the processes are there for. Namely to improve the care of patients. Instead of implementing changes simply because we HAVE to.

Well said.
and as a recent user of the NHS I wish to thank YOU and all your colleagues and  the excellent team  who took care of me .
Well done .

[floo]

We are so fortunate to have an NHS in the UK, it might not be perfect but I am so glad I don't live in a country where there is none like the US. It is the responsibility of all UK Governments, whatever their hue, to ensure the NHS more than survives, but provides a good service too. The staff get paid a pittance in comparison with people who merely kick a ball around, and that makes me very annoyed indeed. 

[Robbie]

Here here!

There are NHS personnel who are paid well floo, they don't all get a pittance. Depends on what they do and their level of responsibility.
Not everyone is talented enough to earn money from kicking a ball around and those that are successful don't stay at the top forever.  Fame and fortune can be short lived.  Far better to have an interesting career, earn a decent salary and enjoy a pleasant lifestyle for all your working life with no kiss and tell newspaper articles!

[floo]

Here here!

There are NHS personnel who are paid well floo, they don't all get a pittance. Depends on what they do and their level of responsibility.
Not everyone is talented enough to earn money from kicking a ball around and those that are successful don't stay at the top forever.  Fame and fortune can be short lived.  Far better to have an interesting career, earn a decent salary and enjoy a pleasant lifestyle for all your working life with no kiss and tell newspaper articles!

Compared to the ball kickers, ALL the NHS staff, including the top brass, get paid a pittance.

[Rhiannon]

Why are you so angry about what private companies (football clubs) pay their employees? The money comes from Tv subscriptions and sponsorship. It’s not as though reducing their wages will make a scrap of difference to the NHS.

[floo]

Why are you so angry about what private companies (football clubs) pay their employees? The money comes from Tv subscriptions and sponsorship. It’s not as though reducing their wages will make a scrap of difference to the NHS.

It is crazy that people who kick a ball around are paid so much money. My grandson (14) is good at doing that and was picked out as a player of note by two big football clubs when he was younger. Fortunately he realises that his schooling is far more important than a mere sport, and will strive to go to university and have a proper career when he is older. At the weekend he is a coach for junior teams and is to be a referee too, that is fine as a hobby.

[Sassy]

Hi everyone,

Here is a BBC article about the NHS and their targets.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41656667

The answer is obvious...they have closed too many hospitals.
It is the relevant and key factor which is is also the truth.  Hospitals throughout the Country have been closed. Leaving people having to travel miles because they do not have a local A&E. The two hospitals nearest to us were both changed to day centre care and  no A&E or inpatients.  Everyone sounds surprised but if you voted Conservative you voted to have your emergency services taken away.

We have had the warnings for years on American TV where the people without health care insurance were unable to find treatment. You might as well go to your GP because the hospitals without A&E do not give any emergency treatment.
If a serious condition occurs, many will not make it because they are having to travel miles through dense traffic to get emergency treatment. I am talking a 30 minute ambulance drive in normal traffic.

[Walter]

It is crazy that people who kick a ball around are paid so much money. My grandson (14) is good at doing that and was picked out as a player of note by two big football clubs when he was younger. Fortunately he realises that his schooling is far more important than a mere sport, and will strive to go to university and have a proper career when he is older. At the weekend he is a coach for junior teams and is to be a referee too, that is fine as a hobby.

you referenced then completely ignored Rhiannon's post and went on to tell us about your grandson , all very pleasant .
I would have preferred you to address Rhiannon's comment

[Aruntraveller]

you referenced then completely ignored Rhiannon's post and went on to tell us about your grandson , all very pleasant .
I would have preferred you to address Rhiannon's comment

Agree. There is a conversation to be had about football and the quite frankly, obscene & immoral (imo) amounts paid to footballers, but this is not the thread.

Although why Floo chooses to fixate on only this group when other options are available I don't know.