Author Topic: Smacking to be banned in Scotland  (Read 11770 times)

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2017, 03:45:48 PM »
My mind turns to Larkin
Indeed. Except people have a biological urge to procreate and children are a result of that natural, biological urge so not sure many people will take him up on that last line, especially over some trivial abuse such as a slap that doesn't leave a mark.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

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Rhiannon

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2017, 03:46:44 PM »
'Trivial abuse'?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2017, 03:49:37 PM »
So if people are traumatised, they choose to feel that way and it's their fault.
That's your generalisation, not mine.

What I wrote was if children feel traumatised over one / many slaps that don't leave a mark, they can change their perspective. If they are unable to change their perspective, then they have no option but to remain traumatised.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2017, 03:49:58 PM »
Indeed. Except people have a biological urge to procreate and children are a result of that natural, biological urge so not sure many people will take him up on that last line, especially over some trivial abuse such as a slap that doesn't leave a mark.
You do know that simply repeating "trivial" isn't an argument? And that by putting it in you are indulging in the begging the question fallacy?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 03:56:31 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2017, 03:51:15 PM »
That's your generalisation, not mine.

What I wrote was if children feel traumatised over one / many slaps that don't leave a mark, they can change their perspective. If they are unable to change their perspective, then they have no option but to remain traumatised.

Thank you for repeating yourself and showing I was correct in what was a paraphrase.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2017, 03:51:22 PM »
'Trivial abuse'?
Yes - to me being slapped as a child, when it doesn't leave a mark is trivial. You wanted to call it abuse. I put the two descriptions together.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2017, 03:52:22 PM »
Thank you for repeating yourself and showing I was correct in what was a paraphrase.
You're welcome. I don't think it applies to all trauma - but if you want to think yourself correct, give yourself a nice little pat on the back and a gold star.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Owlswing

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2017, 03:54:13 PM »

I don't doubt your comments but how do you know this , were you involved?


Involved? Yes, I was, and am. I am part of the local Safer Neighbourhoods initiative.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2017, 03:54:20 PM »
You're welcome. I don't think it applies to all trauma - but if you want to think yourself correct, give yourself a nice little pat on the back and a gold star.

So what trauma does it apply to?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2017, 03:57:14 PM »
So what trauma does it apply to?
Trivial trauma e.g. the trauma of being slapped as a child where it didn't leave a mark. Or the trauma of having your phone taken away for a week. I'm not allowed to do that to another adult as well - maybe they should introduce a bill to criminalise parents who take their children's phones away and leave them bereft and traumatised.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 04:00:45 PM by Gabriella »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2017, 03:59:56 PM »
Trivial trauma e.g. the trauma of being slapped as a child where it didn't leave a mark. Or the trauma of having your phone taken away for a week.
So a subjective claim again using your use of begging the question. Ah well.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #86 on: October 20, 2017, 04:03:12 PM »
So a subjective claim again using your use of begging the question. Ah well.
Relationships and perspectives tend to be subjective.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #87 on: October 20, 2017, 04:06:49 PM »
Relationships and perspectives tend to be subjective.
Indeed, which is why making objective statements about trauma would be foolish.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2017, 04:21:40 PM »
Indeed, which is why making objective statements about trauma would be foolish.
What objective statement - I didn't realise I had made any. My perspective is that describing something as a trauma is an individual's choice of words - there is no objective measure of trauma. But if people would prefer I call it trauma, I don't mind using that term.

My perspective is that describing the trauma as trivial is very much subjective. Which is why I wrote that if my kids don't want to waste their time feeling traumatised, they have the option of changing their perspective. I think that if they feel the trauma was trivial they would not be particularly affected by it and would not spend a lot of time dwelling on it. And then I wrote if they were unable to change their perspective, they have no option but to feel traumatised.

For example, I don't think about being caned - except when this topic is brought up - and then I can't really remember the caning. I do have a vague memory of the fear just before hand though - I remember it as similar to the feeling I get when I watch a scary movie or the feeling as you are climbing up on a roller coaster just before the big drop. Not something I would choose to describe as traumatising - it was just scary  at the time.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »
You made a statement about what trauma could be got over, and have been using the term trivial as continued begging the question and an objective claim.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2017, 04:51:24 PM »
It’s seird but I’ve never felt the need to discipline a child through punishment. It’s about teaching understanding and putting things right. So a ‘talking to’ is actually explaining what is wrong, listening, agreeing or otherwise and deciding what to do next.
Ok firstly I've seen parents explaining while their child's eyes glaze over and then seen them listening to their child say " I don't care, I want...." and then I've finally seen them saying to their child "do it because I say so" once the explaining hasn't worked.

Secondly there isn't always time to explain if you want an immediate stop to a behaviour.

Thirdly, why would a child have your perspective and agree with it when they have a short attention span and limited patience?
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #91 on: October 20, 2017, 04:56:02 PM »
You made a statement about what trauma could be got over, and have been using the term trivial as continued begging the question and an objective claim.
I used the term trivial because you brought it up , and I used it by saying I think it is trivial. See #40.

I have also said that if my kids don't find it trivial and can't get over it, they will have to remain traumatised. All sounds very subjective to me - but if you want to believe it is objective or foolish, be my guest.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #92 on: October 20, 2017, 05:01:21 PM »
I used the term trivial because you brought it up , and I used it by saying I think it is trivial. See #40.

I have also said that if my kids don't find it trivial and can't get over it, they will have to remain traumatised. All sounds very subjective to me - but if you want to believe it is objective or foolish, be my guest.

Why are you misrepresenting what was said, again?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #93 on: October 20, 2017, 05:05:55 PM »
Why are you misrepresenting what was said, again?
Is that your stock answer / get-out clause  when you get too tired to continue typing or have lost interest and can't be bothered to elaborate?
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2017, 05:09:42 PM »
Is that your stock answer / get-out clause  when you get too tired to continue typing or have lost interest and can't be bothered to elaborate?
No, it's my stock answer when people misrepresent things as you have done twice on this thread.

Walter

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2017, 05:28:18 PM »
No, it's my stock answer when people misrepresent things as you have done twice on this thread.
I wonder if she might say , sorry I was wrong and now I cant get out of it

otherwise she is one strange person!!!!!

Walter

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2017, 05:30:26 PM »
Involved? Yes, I was, and am. I am part of the local Safer Neighbourhoods initiative.
we are doomed mate   :( :( :(

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2017, 05:39:02 PM »
No, it's my stock answer when people misrepresent things as you have done twice on this thread.
Ok. Whatever floats your boat.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Walter

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2017, 05:41:21 PM »
Ok. Whatever floats your boat.
flounces off!

Walter

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Re: Smacking to be banned in Scotland
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2017, 06:08:10 PM »
My mind turns to Larkin
mine's turned to mush!