How Did New Atheism Fail So Miserably?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

''they'' only see what ''they'' want to see . whoooohoooa!!!

So we are to take it that none of those who don't believe I'm a creator but believe in ghosts are not atheist?

Or

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/10/31/ghosts-exist-say-1-3-brits/

That none of these 34 Per cent are atheists where in other surveys only 26per cent claimed to be religious.

I think that shows how much in denial you are about atheists and woo.

Unless of course you are making a no true atheist appeal.

[Gordon]

So we are to take it that none of those who don't believe I'm a creator but believe in ghosts are not atheist?

Or

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/10/31/ghosts-exist-say-1-3-brits/

That none of these 34 Per cent are atheists where in other surveys only 26per cent claimed to be religious.

I think that shows how much in denial you are about atheists and woo.

Unless of course you are making a no true atheist appeal.

If you're going to use published research, Vlad, there are two things you should bear in mind.

1. You need to understand the details of what the researchers actually did.

2. You don't get to add in either what you'd like them to have done or what you'd like the outcomes to have been.

So it's not a good idea to cite research that doesn't support your position (unless of course you like looking like a silly-billy).

[Shaker]

So it's not a good idea to cite research that doesn't support your position (unless of course you like looking like a silly-billy).

Ah: now I think I can be of some help here ...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If you're going to use published research, Vlad, there are two things you should bear in mind.

1. You need to understand the details of what the researchers actually did.

2. You don't get to add in either what you'd like them to have done or what you'd like the outcomes to have been.

So it's not a good idea to cite research that doesn't support your position (unless of course you like looking like a silly-billy).

Sounds like a no true atheist argument to me Gordon.
It sounds like a lot of religious according to what I'm hearing from you guys are not atheist.

In terms of YouGov they themselves comment on the implications for atheism as you can read here

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/10/31/ghosts-exist-say-1-3-brits/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

From you Gov

Although previous YouGov surveys have found that only 23% of British people say they are religious, this latest research finds that such atheism is not the fully scientific kind you might expect.

[Gordon]

Sounds like a no true atheist argument to me Gordon.
It sounds like a lot of religious according to what I'm hearing from you guys are not atheist.

In terms of YouGov they themselves comment on the implications for atheism as you can read here

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/10/31/ghosts-exist-say-1-3-brits/

This summary, of a survey commissioned by 'The Sun', says: 'One in four British people (39%) believe that a house can be haunted by some kind of supernatural being, and almost as many (34%) think that ghosts actually exist.'

Perhaps you can explain, since you cited this, how a quarter of anything equals 39% of the whole. 

[Gordon]

From you Gov

Although previous YouGov surveys have found that only 23% of British people say they are religious, this latest research finds that such atheism is not the fully scientific kind you might expect.

So they say but what has atheism to do with science? Do the researchers explain the difference between 'scientific atheism' and 'unscientific atheism'?

Remember this is a survey commissioned by The Sun newspaper.

[Sebastian Toe]

So we are to take it that none of those who don't believe I'm a creator but believe in ghosts are not atheist?

What we do know is that 18% of Christians do not believe in a creator.
What do you make of that?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This summary, of a survey commissioned by 'The Sun', says: 'One in four British people (39%) believe that a house can be haunted by some kind of supernatural being, and almost as many (34%) think that ghosts actually exist.'

Perhaps you can explain, since you cited this, how a quarter of anything equals 39% of the whole.

Highlighting that this was for the Sun has to be a fallacy Gordon.
As it happens these statements on the implications on atheism are on You Govs own website.

For some reason you are in denial about atheists and woo.
I can understand squirmage on your part. That a belief in certain kinds of woo by British atheists must come as a disappointment to the New Atheism.

[Gordon]

Highlighting that this was for the Sun has to be a fallacy Gordon.

You mean The Sun isn't a quality peer-reviewed scientific journal?

Surely not!

As it happens these statements on the implications on atheism are on You Govs own website.

Even so it is an easily spotted mistake, and one that you missed - did your actually read it before citing it?

For some reason you are in denial about atheists and woo.

Not I: problem is you've haven't presented anything that supports your case; your first item didn't address atheism and neither did your arithmetically-challenged second item.

I can understand squirmage on your part. That a belief in certain kinds of woo by British atheists must come as a disappointment to the New Atheism.

You'd better tell them that, if you can find any that is.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This summary, of a survey commissioned by 'The Sun', says: 'One in four British people (39%) believe that a house can be haunted by some kind of supernatural being, and almost as many (34%) think that ghosts actually exist.'

So it's one in three.....I would say that is an even bigger failure for RD than a one in four......Are you hoping that a typo means that the no true atheist believes in woo line is true? Where is the evidence?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You mean The Sun isn't a quality peer-reviewed scientific journal?

Surely not!

Even so it is an easily spotted mistake, and one that you missed - did your actually read it before citing it?

Not I: problem is you've haven't presented anything that supports your case; your first item didn't address atheism and neither did your arithmetically-challenged second item.

You'd better tell them that, if you can find any that is.

I have not directed people to the Sun Gordon
The no atheist believes in woo argument seems to depend heavily on a typo.

Let me repeat what YouGov have said about British atheism.......

From you Gov

Although previous YouGov surveys have found that only 23% of British people say they are religious, this latest research finds that such atheism is not the fully scientific kind you might expect.

[Maeght]

So it's one in three.....I would say that is an even bigger failure for RD than a one in four......Are you hoping that a typo means that the no true atheist believes in woo line is true? Where is the evidence?

I think people can have no belief in God or gods but still believe in other stuff such as ghosts. I see no reason why not.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You'd better tell them that, if you can find any that is.

Don't need to.......You Gov already have.

[Shaker]

From you Gov

Although previous YouGov surveys have found that only 23% of British people say they are religious, this latest research finds that such atheism is not the fully scientific kind you might expect.

What's "the fully scientific kind of atheism"?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What's "the fully scientific kind of atheism"?

I would hazard that as New Atheism, Scientistic, no room for the supernatural, partially overlapping magisterial and all of that.

[Gordon]

What's "the fully scientific kind of atheism"?

I asked him that: I'm sure his answer will arrive any time now!

[Sebastian Toe]

I would hazard that as New Atheism, Scientistic, no room for the supernatural, partially overlapping magisterial and all of that.

Would they be similar to the New Christians? You know those 18% who don't believe in a creator?

[Shaker]

Would they be similar to the New Christians? You know those 18% who don't believe in a creator?

That's a very new kind of Christianity.

Bit like my mate Solly, who is what's known as an unorthodox Jew.

He's a Nazi.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

"The problem with New Atheism was that its whole shtick was repeating obviously true things that everyone already knew? But about 80% of Americans identify as religious, 63% claim to be “absolutely certain” that there is a God, and 46% think the world was literally created in seven days. This is a surprising number of people disagreeing with a thing that everybody already knows. I could be misreading the article. The article could be wrong. But I don’t think so. This is my intuitive feeling of what was wrong with New Atheism as well. It wasn’t that they were wrong.... Just that they were right in a loud, boring, and pointless way"

If they were right in a loud, boring and pointless way, it wouldn't matter because they would still be right. They would have truth on their side and the issue would be the means they use to communicate it.

However, this truth thingy is strangely absent from their position. How many people fail to accept that 1+1=2 (in base 10) or that the River Thames runs through London?

There is also a strange inconsistency in claiming certainty while failing miserably to demonstrate that certainty, yet criticizing those of religious belief who claim any kind of certainty. Maybe SusanDoris could comment on how she resolves this contradiction.

[Gordon]

If they were right in a loud, boring and pointless way, it wouldn't matter because they would still be right. They would have truth on their side and the issue would be the means they use to communicate it.

However, this truth thingy is strangely absent from their position. How many people fail to accept that 1+1=2 (in base 10) or that the River Thames runs through London?

The first is axiomatic and the second a fact: so what?

There is also a strange inconsistency in claiming certainty while failing miserably to demonstrate that certainty, yet criticizing those of religious belief who claim any kind of certainty.

Leaving aside your straw man (another fallacy), about claiming certainty, reminds me of this quote from Bertrand Russell's 'A Liberal Decalogue' - 'Do not feel absolutely certain of anything: sound advice you'd do well to take heed of.

[Shaker]

Atheist bus campaign: There's probably no God.

Balloon Whisk of the Nasal Polyps: Atheists claim certainty.

Anybody else seeing a bit of a problem here?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Atheist bus campaign: There's probably no God.

Balloon Whisk of the Nasal Polyps: Atheists claim certainty.

Anybody else seeing a bit of a problem here?

Yes. The atheist bus campaign was made to put the word probably by the bus company.

[Shaker]

Yes. The atheist bus campaign was made to put the word probably by the bus company.

Any evidence of this?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Any evidence of this?

I read it somewhere a long time ago. Perhaps it was to satisfy advertising standards or something.