THE 11 plus exam.....

[Walter]

I've been out all day and so have only just come back to this.

If it's any help in this discussion, I took the 11-Plus twice - once at the age of 10 and again a year later. This was standard practice in Kesteven.

I went to the local boys grammar school in September 1953.

jesus , didn't even know humans were around in 1953 

[Robbie]

I think I must have taken my 11= 1971.  I remember it well, enjoyed it actually.
If Walter doesn't remember his it's possible he had some other sort of assessment.

We still have 11+ and good grammar schools near where I live.  They are state schools, there are also some independent schools who take people for nothing.   I went to a state grammar and we didn't feel especially privileged, it was just what you did.  Never thought twice about it.  My kids did the same.  One or two of the local comps are quite good but no doubt the grammars are better and nowadays parents do their best to encourage their children to go there which I think is fair enough unless the kid themselves objects.   The ones I know seem really happy.

[jeremyp]

As an aside, and I stand to be corrected, the PISA assessment, which apparently allows countries to compare their secondary education systems has much in common with the old 11-Plus: it is mechanistic, trainable and rewards performance rather than creativity.

The PISA assessment doesn't reward anything. It's designed to find out what the educational standards in the country are. The only effect is if the worse performing countries are shamed into improving their educational systems.

rewards performance rather than creativity.

I read that as saying it rewards getting the right answers rather than getting imaginative but wrong answers.

As for the 11+, whilst I think it is a good idea to assess children's abilities frequently, the 11+ was a terrible thing, in my opinion. If you passed, you got into grammar school, if you failed you went to a secondary modern and never the twain shall meet. Your whole future life is determined by one day when you are eleven.

[SweetPea]

Also it is quite worrying that I DON'T REMEMBER . Or did I automatically go through without doing the test ?

Did that happen to some kids? That's what I'm trying to find out really .

Walter, I have no recollection at all of taking my 11-plus, but I have a vivid memory of hearing the result. It's very strange, I can even remember where I was sitting in the classroom. I think it was because I didn't pass but was called 'a borderliner' and had to wait a few days to see if there were any vacant places in the local girls' high school. The end result was there were no available places left and I was heart-broken because my best friend had passed the exam meaning we would be attending different schools. But all ended well, I loved the CofE secondary school that I went to, a smallish establishment with just 400 pupils and some interesting teachers.

[Walter]

Walter, I have no recollection at all of taking my 11-plus, but I have a vivid memory of hearing the result. It's very strange, I can even remember where I was sitting in the classroom. I think it was because I didn't pass but was called 'a borderliner' and had to wait a few days to see if there were any vacant places in the local girls' high school. The end result was there were no available places left and I was heart-broken because my best friend had passed the exam meaning we would be attending different schools. But all ended well, I loved the CofE secondary school that I went to, a smallish establishment with just 400 pupils and some interesting teachers.

I do love a happy ending 

[SusanDoris]

jesus , didn't even know humans were around in 1953 

Well, I was 17!!!
It was only the second year of the 11+ when I took it.

[Walter]

Well, I was 17!!!
It was only the second year of the 11+ when I took it.

age is but a number, I wish I could dance like you 

[Harrowby Hall]

The PISA assessment doesn't reward anything. It's designed to find out what the educational standards in the country are. The only effect is if the worse performing countries are shamed into improving their educational systems.

Perhaps the word "reward" could have been reconsidered. PISA scores appear to favour those educational systems which are mechanistic rather than organic. PISA methodology and results have been seriously criticised by several educationalists.

I read that as saying it rewards getting the right answers rather than getting imaginative but wrong answers.

Then read something else. I suggest you acquaint yourself with the work of Liam Hudson, in particular his distinction between convergent and divergent styles of thinking.

As for the 11+, whilst I think it is a good idea to assess children's abilities frequently, the 11+ was a terrible thing, in my opinion. If you passed, you got into grammar school, if you failed you went to a secondary modern and never the twain shall meet. Your whole future life is determined by one day when you are eleven.

I do agree with your general point about the 11+. But how would you suggest the frequent assessment of children's abilities should take place? End of year examinations? Which terminology do you prefer: education or schooling?

[jeremyp]

PISA methodology and results have been seriously criticised by several educationalists.

From the countries that don't do well?

I do agree with your general point about the 11+. But how would you suggest the frequent assessment of children's abilities should take place? End of year examinations? Which terminology do you prefer: education or schooling?

I will defer to the teachers and education experts on the subject of how to assess children. All I would say is that you do have to assess children a) to find out if the education system is failing them as individuals and b) to find out which educational methods work best in general.