Indigenous people and Science

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is an article about how some scientists (women) are trying to highlight the contributions of their own small indigenous communities in understanding of the Natural World.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41887971

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Indigenous peoples around the world have understood the stars, tides and local ecosystems for hundreds of years but experts say their insights have often been overlooked. Now some female scientists are striving to highlight their achievements and collect the scientific heritage of their communities before it disappears.

From Australia to Canada, detailed scientific knowledge of the natural world has been handed down through generations via stories and oral tradition.

But this information is rarely formalised or even distributed beyond small communities.

And its significance within the wider culture of science goes largely unacknowledged, argues Australian astronomer Karlie Noon.

Many textbooks will attribute discoveries to specific Western scientists, "and yet we have physical evidence that contrasts that".

Dr Mercier is hopeful that Western science and traditional knowledge will find a balance.

"Every culture has a science. So it's really important for the indigenous voice to be there."

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Cheers.

Sriram

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I did read years ago in the New Scientist about quantum scientists and cosmologists running stuff past native Americans in order to see whether there was anything in the language which might express some of the concepts better and lead to further insights.

[Sriram]

I did read years ago in the New Scientist about quantum scientists and cosmologists running stuff past native Americans in order to see whether there was anything in the language which might express some of the concepts better and lead to further insights.

Yes...and Carl Sagan was one such famous astronomer and cosmologist who loved Hinduism and India.

Here is a video of Carl Sagan talking about cosmology and Hinduism.

https://vedicambassador.wordpress.com/tag/carl-sagan/

[Walter]

Yes...and Carl Sagan was one such famous astronomer and cosmologist who loved Hinduism and India.

Here is a video of Carl Sagan talking about cosmology and Hinduism.

https://vedicambassador.wordpress.com/tag/carl-sagan/

thanks for the video , very interesting ,however I think you misunderstand its significance . Right now I don't have the motivation to explain .

[Rhiannon]

Plant medicine is another area where indigenous people have valuable knowledge.

[Walter]

Plant medicine is another area where indigenous people have valuable knowledge.

until about the mid 1930s all medicine was nothing more than pot luck and with the indigenous people it still is , otherwise they wouldn't need hospitals

[Rhiannon]

until about the mid 1930s all medicine was nothing more than pot luck and with the indigenous people it still is , otherwise they wouldn't need hospitals

I didn’t say that they didn’t need modern medicine. But ‘new’ drugs have historically been discovered in plants and then synthesised (aspirin, quinine, digitalin, taxane) and to assume that there is nothing else out there - nor that native people can’t show us different ways of using plant medicines - is ignorant.

[Walter]

I didn’t say that they didn’t need modern medicine. But ‘new’ drugs have historically been discovered in plants and then synthesised (aspirin, quinine, digitalin, taxane) and to assume that there is nothing else out there - nor that native people can’t show us different ways of using plant medicines - is ignorant.

the ignorance is not realising all medicines are made of atoms, molecules, compounds and chemicals found on EARTH.

It is the skill of humans that transform them into usable , safe ,effective medicines 

[Rhiannon]

the ignorance is not realising all medicines are made of atoms, molecules, compounds and chemicals found on EARTH.

It is the skill of humans that transform them into usable , safe ,effective medicines

And that skill doesn’t just lie with Westerners.

[Walter]

And that skill doesn’t just lie with Westerners.

I know who I would put my trust in having recently had a major operation

[Enki]

Chinese astronomers produced detailed and interesting cosmological records.(e.g. recording the supernova that became the Crab Nebula) Their work was often influenced by Indian(especially Buddhist) astronomers. The Arabic world laid the foundations of modern astronomy, and we owe a great deal to those who observed sky phenomena throughout recorded history.

[Rhiannon]

I know who I would put my trust in having recently had a major operation

Which is misrepresenting what I said.

[Sriram]

I know who I would put my trust in having recently had a major operation

Typical 'either or' fragmented thinking...!  You must try some integration sometime.

[Walter]

Which is misrepresenting what I said.

no it isn't

do you think I'm fucking stupid?

[Rhiannon]

no it isn't

do you think I'm fucking stupid?

I've had three lots of major surgery plus several lots of minor and I want to be in a hospital as much as you when that happens.

But I didn't say that indigenous medicine should replace modern medicine. You misrepresented me there. What I said was that their use of plants can teach us things that we can take and adapt in the way that we have with other plant medicines in the past.

[Walter]

I've had three lots of major surgery plus several lots of minor and I want to be in a hospital as much as you when that happens.

But I didn't say that indigenous medicine should replace modern medicine. You misrepresented me there. What I said was that their use of plants can teach us things that we can take and adapt in the way that we have with other plant medicines in the past.

thank you Rhi for your clarification . I hope you are well now

[Sriram]

thanks for the video , very interesting ,however I think you misunderstand its significance . Right now I don't have the motivation to explain .

You are trying to teach me the significance of my culture and religion...?!  How very kind (and superior) of you!! Thanks. 

[Sriram]

I think I have posted the Creation Hymn here before. Here it is once again.

Nasadiya from the Rig Veda (1500 BCE).

CREATION HYMN

There was neither non-existence nor existence then.
There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond.
What stirred?
Where?
In whose protection?
Was there water, bottomlessly deep?

There was neither death nor immortality then.
There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day.
The One breathed, windless, by its own impulse.
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning,
with no distinguishing sign, all this was fluid.
The life force that was covered with emptiness,
that One arose through the power of heat.

Desire came upon that One in the beginning,
that was the first seed of mind.
Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom
found the bond of existence and non-existence.

Their cord was extended across.
Was there below?
Was there above?
There were seed-placers, there were powers.
There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above.

Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced?
Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whence this creation has arisen
– perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not –
the One who looks down on it,
in the highest heaven, only He knows
or perhaps even He does not know.


Here is a short write up about it if you are interested....

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/creation-hymn/

[Rhiannon]

thank you Rhi for your clarification . I hope you are well now

I'm good, thank you, the major surgeries were getting babies out.

I hope that you have recovered from your surgery too.

[Walter]

I'm good, thank you, the major surgeries were getting babies out.

I hope that you have recovered from your surgery too.

oh I see, I'm pretty good at getting em in 

I'm improving fast now however today is a bit of a mare !  you may have noticed 

[Rhiannon]

oh I see, I'm pretty good at getting em in 

I'm improving fast now however today is a bit of a mare !  you may have noticed 

Bless you. I'm not exactly sweetness and light today either.

[Walter]

Bless you. I'm not exactly sweetness and light today either.

big cuddles 

[Rhiannon]

big cuddles 

Right back at you. 

[Walter]

Right back at you. 

that's nice , I've just been asleep for the last two hours . Which is now not looking good for tonight 

[Rhiannon]

that's nice , I've just been asleep for the last two hours . Which is now not looking good for tonight 

Vaguely back on topic...the milky sap in lettuce contains an opioid- like substance, hence the Flopsy Bunnies falling asleep on a compost heap. Not sure how much lettuce you’d need to eat to get the same effect, but Katie Boyle in the TV Times always used to recommend boiling water poured over a bowl of lettuce and put on a bedside table so the steam can be breathed in for insomnia.