Should we remember them?

[Anchorman]

      Today, we remember those in the forces who died in war - and society should never be allowed to foget them.
But there's a part of the war story which is neglected - the conshie.
Many were arrested and imprisoned for refusing to fight - or demonstrating against the wars in the first place, and because of the conviction they held.
Some were shot on the front line as cowards for refusing to kill.
Here's a thoughtful artical from a Scots newspaper - and, yes, I know it's old news, but it might start of a siscussion;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13172243.Let_s_commemorate_the_WW1_objectors/

[Owlswing]

      Today, we remember those in the forces who died in war - and society should never be allowed to foget them.
But there's a part of the war story which is neglected - the conshie.
Many were arrested and imprisoned for refusing to fight - or demonstrating against the wars in the first place, and because of the conviction they held.
Some were shot on the front line as cowards for refusing to kill.
Here's a thoughtful artical from a Scots newspaper - and, yes, I know it's old news, but it might start of a siscussion;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13172243.Let_s_commemorate_the_WW1_objectors/

They could, of course, join the RAMC and many did! They did as their conscience required they worked to save lives rather than taking them.

Unforunately, just as with shell-shock, the attitude was criminally sadistic.

I think it was Kitchener who never refused to sign a death warrant on a charge of cowardice (for cowardice read shellshock!)

Just think, if this had been the case in WWII there would never have been a Goon Show!

[jeremyp]

I think it was Kitchener who never refused to sign a death warrant on a charge of cowardice (for cowardice read shellshock!)

You think all the soldiers who were found guilty of cowardice had shell shock?

[Anchorman]

Interesting to note that many of those shot in France were guilty of 'derertion'....but no soldier who deserted in dear old Blighty at the same time - and there were many - was shot for it.

[Anchorman]

       Growing up in the '60's and '70's, I remember a local barber, Bert McCulloch, and was always puzzled why some passed him in the street and refused to talk to him.
I found out, later, that he had been a conshie - because he was a Plymouth Brethren.
He was sent down the mines to work - and the mining community ostracised him as well. Apparently, his fellow workers would urinate on his lunch - or replace it with faeces. He was forced to take his lunch underground in a locked cash box.
Things only improved when he saved three trapped miners from a seam which was unstable, at the risk to his own life.
However, for decades after the war, Bert was referred to, in conversation, as 'the conshie'.
It took a certain amount of guts to stand by one's convictions in the face

[Walter]

      Today, we remember those in the forces who died in war - and society should never be allowed to foget them.
But there's a part of the war story which is neglected - the conshie.
Many were arrested and imprisoned for refusing to fight - or demonstrating against the wars in the first place, and because of the conviction they held.
Some were shot on the front line as cowards for refusing to kill.
Here's a thoughtful artical from a Scots newspaper - and, yes, I know it's old news, but it might start of a siscussion;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13172243.Let_s_commemorate_the_WW1_objectors/

yes , thoughtful and disgusting

[Rhiannon]

This makes me think of something I saw in my local town during the Iraq war, a middle aged woman with a candle and a home made cardboard sign saying ‘Peace Vigil’ being screamed at by a squaddie in uniform.

[Walter]

This makes me think of something I saw in my local town during the Iraq war, a middle aged woman with a candle and a home made cardboard sign saying ‘Peace Vigil’ being screamed at by a squaddie in uniform.

you cant have vigil without a candle; it's the law !

[Owlswing]

You think all the soldiers who were found guilty of cowardice had shell shock?

The vast majority were such victims. There have been several documentaries on the matter and when a soldier ran from the trenches on the front-line shell-shock was the usual culprit.

You, Jeremy, would, I have no doubt, have been of such a strong character that you would be able to watch your mates being blown to bits day after day with no more than a sardonic 'Oh bad luck Charlie/Gearge/Fred' etc!

[Owlswing]

you cant have vigil without a candle; it's the law !

Sarcie b*****d aren't you!

[jeremyp]

Interesting to note that many of those shot in France were guilty of 'derertion'....but no soldier who deserted in dear old Blighty at the same time - and there were many - was shot for it.

A couple of hundred were actually shot.

[jeremyp]

The vast majority were such victims. There have been several documentaries on the matter and when a soldier ran from the trenches on the front-line shell-shock was the usual culprit.

How do you know?

You, Jeremy, would, I have no doubt, have been of such a strong character that you would be able to watch your mates being blown to bits day after day with no more than a sardonic 'Oh bad luck Charlie/Gearge/Fred' etc!

It's a constant source of amazement to me that anybody stayed at the front. I presume I would not have deserted, but only because most people didn't.

[Owlswing]

How do you know?
It's a constant source of amazement to me that anybody stayed at the front. I presume I would not have deserted, but only because most people didn't.

This does not make your comments any more palatable.

[Walter]

Sarcie b*****d aren't you!

thank you for noticing , I try my best!

[Robbie]

It's a constant source of amazement to me that anybody stayed at the front. I presume I would not have deserted, but only because most people didn't.

I'd have found somewhere to hide and crept out after the gunfire stopped and rejoined the troops.

[ippy]

                                                               Should we remember them?

I think we should and there's a need to show lots of respect to the nearest and dearest of the dead that we haven't forgotten the sacrifice their loved ones have made, well the dead of course they're gone and wont now anything about it.

ippy

[Owlswing]

I'd have found somewhere to hide and crept out after the gunfire stopped and rejoined the troops.

from: jeremyp on Today at 11:40:37

    It's a constant source of amazement to me that anybody stayed at the front. I presume I would not have deserted, but only because most people didn't.

Which both show just how much stress it must have taken to drive those who did to run!

[Shaker]

It's a constant source of amazement to me that anybody stayed at the front. I presume I would not have deserted, but only because most people didn't.

There I think it would have been a case of safety in numbers.

Deserters were well aware that if caught they would most likely be shot. Some were, of course. You can shoot one; you can shoot ten; you can shoot twenty; possibly even fifty. Once you get to five hundred or a thousand men - more - shooting them becomes a far trickier prospect, especially given that the men we're talking about were by definition armed.

Any revolt relies on taking a large number of others along with you to succeed.

[Walter]

There I think it would have been a case of safety in numbers.

Deserters were well aware that if caught they would most likely be shot. Some were, of course. You can shoot one; you can shoot ten; you can shoot twenty; possibly even fifty. Once you get to five hundred or a thousand men - more - shooting them becomes a far trickier prospect, especially given that the men we're talking about were by definition armed.

Any revolt relies on taking a large number of others along with you to succeed.

look at the horror,, I have no words !



https://youtu.be/fHuNQER_8rI

[Owlswing]

Look at the horror,, I have no words !

https://youtu.be/fHuNQER_8rI

And that is a santised version for the viewing public!

Imagine if even this version were in full colour!
 

[Walter]

And that is a santised version for the viewing public!

Imagine if even this version were in full colour!

too much as it is !!!

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, we should.

[Nearly Sane]

A couple of hundred were actually shot.

I read Anchorman as meaning that people were shot by the British for deserting in France but not deserting in the UK. That seems to be correct, as far as I can find on a quick trawl.

[Walter]

I read Anchorman as meaning that people were shot by the British for deserting in France but not deserting in the UK. That seems to be correct, as far as I can find on a quick trawl.

I seem to remember a BBC programme that dealt with  this subject but for the life of me can't remember the title,
I think it was part dramatized with one of them McGann brothers in it .

[Nearly Sane]

I seem to remember a BBC programme that dealt with  this subject but for the life of me can't remember the title,
I think it was part dramatized with one of them McGann brothers in it .

The Monocled Mutineer