Alcohol minimum pricing given go ahead in Scotland by Supreme Court

[Gordon]

120 deaths fewer deaths a year in the short term, eventually they will all die regardless.

I think people living longer and having a healthier lifestyle is enough reason to do things. If you introduce cost into the equation then you have to follow that argument where it may lead you, e.g. it might actually be cheaper to get people back on the fags, they die younger, often of a cheap heart attack.

So you would support this if the evidence lead that way?

If the aim is to improve health and well-being then the notion that policies which encourage people to die young and reduce demands on resources are clearly mutually exclusive then I support health and well-being.

I think legislation that both improves public health and reduces demands on health services is generally a good thing, and cost is certainly a factor if a reduction in alcohol admissions in Scottish hospitals due to alcohol relating issues can be achieved, since this helps free resources for other health-care conditions. For the same reason I support measures to lower the profile of tobacco products in an effort stop people killing themselves (and others) by smoking, such as display restrictions and to prevent people smoking in cars containing children.

This is a health improvement measure that is specific to Scotland - so unless you plan to spend time here buying cheap booze it won't affect you: it won't affect me and I live here.

[Shaker]

This is a health improvement measure that is specific to Scotland [...]

Not, I suspect and fully expect, for all that long.

[Walter]

We knew what they were up to. The eldest girl dislikes the taste of alcohol, which is a bit awkward as she is a vicar, the other two girls drink in strict moderation, as do my husband and I.

laugh-a-minute round your house eh?

[Gordon]

Not, I suspect and fully expect, for all that long.

Leaving aside the slippery slope worry, that surely depends on the other legislatures in rUK.

From what I can see the Scottish contingent here on R&E support this measure, as do others here in Scotland I've spoken about this. I see it, as do others of my acquaintance here in Scotland, as being essentially a health improvement measure and Scotland does have/has had its issues with alcohol use and abuse.

What the view is elsewhere in rUK I'm not in a position to comment on.
 

[Walter]

What I don't get is why anyone would wish to drink so much they are not in control of their actions, so they get into risky situations? They are likely to have an unpleasant headache the next day, which means they are unable to function efficiently. Of course the damage they do to their liver if they drink too much on a regular basis, is likely to have life threatening consequences. My middle daughter has worked as a street pastor rescuing, usually girls, who have too much to drink and have put their lives in danger.

oh FFS!

[Walter]

Leaving aside the slippery slope worry, that surely depends on the other legislatures in rUK.

From what I can see the Scottish contingent here on R&E support this measure, as do others here in Scotland I've spoken about this. I see it, as do others of my acquaintance here in Scotland, as being essentially a health improvement measure and Scotland does have/has had its issues with alcohol use and abuse.

What the view is elsewhere in rUK I'm not in a position to comment on.

If I were to happen upon one of these 'unfortunate' people in a shop doorway late at night I'd probably buy them a bottle of cheep scotch and watch as they drifted off into everlasting oblivion and congratulate myself on my civic duty to rid the town of another piece of scum

you're welcome, Scotland

[Nearly Sane]

Not, I suspect and fully expect, for all that long.

And so? If that's what is wanted? Tbh I suspect introducing it to a country where the govt can also raise excise duty may be more problematic but were it to reduce alcohol deaths and hospital stays what is the problem with the measure?

[Nearly Sane]

If I were to happen upon one of these 'unfortunate' people in a shop doorway late at night I'd probably buy them a bottle of cheep scotch and watch as they drifted off into everlasting oblivion and congratulate myself on my civic duty to rid the town of another piece of scum

you're welcome, Scotland

and as you help murder someone's mother, someone's daughter you must feel so proud.

[Walter]

and as you help murder someone's mother, someone's daughter you must feel so proud.

fortunately I have no snowflake tendencies , therefore am able to sleep untroubled at night (apart from my new hip of course) 

[Gordon]

If I were to happen upon one of these 'unfortunate' people in a shop doorway late at night I'd probably buy them a bottle of cheep scotch and watch as they drifted off into everlasting oblivion and congratulate myself on my civic duty to rid the town of another piece of scum

you're welcome, Scotland

Why thank you: fortunately some of us here have a different view, and one which doesn't involve making it easy for some people to damage themselves via cheap booze.

Unless you plan to visit Scotland (and buy cheap booze) I can't see why you are remotely troubled by this. 

[Nearly Sane]

fortunately I have no snowflake tendencies , therefore am able to sleep untroubled at night (apart from my new hip of course)

Ah snowflake = not willing to murder someone's daughter.

[Shaker]

And so? If that's what is wanted?

Wanted by whom?

Who will be asked and how?

Tbh I suspect introducing it to a country where the govt can also raise excise duty may be more problematic but were it to reduce alcohol deaths and hospital stays what is the problem with the measure?

It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut - too much (of yet another) state intrusion into the rights of the individual compared to the size of the problem it purports to address.

[Shaker]

Unless you plan to visit Scotland (and buy cheap booze) I can't see why you are remotely troubled by this.

Because it will happen here.

The slope isn't tremendously slippery: it's been floated before. That Scotland has done it will be a shot in the arm to those who want to see it in England and Wales. Scotland will be the example they point at when trying to foist it upon the populace.

You know - like this ... twenty-four hours ago: http://tinyurl.com/ybbyrhzz

[Walter]

Why thank you: fortunately some of us here have a different view, and one which doesn't involve making it easy for some people to damage themselves via cheap booze.

Unless you plan to visit Scotland (and buy cheap booze) I can't see why you are remotely troubled by this.

actually over the summer I spent 2 months travelling around Scotland and thoroughly enjoyed the experience , especially mixing with the locals of an evening having a great time in some fantasic pubs , hotels and bars. And to be honest some of them hotels should be charged with robbery with the prices of the beer!

[Gordon]

It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut - too much (of yet another) state intrusion into the rights of the individual compared to the size of the problem it purports to address.

Thing is - this measure targets just cheap booze sold in Scotland whereas a rise in alcohol duty would raise prices for all forms of alcohol. In addition, alcohol duty is reserved to Westminster so Holyrood cannot use that approach.

This is very much a local measure to tackle a local issue: surprised that those of you outwith Scotland are even bothered by it.

[jeremyp]

If I were to happen upon one of these 'unfortunate' people in a shop doorway late at night I'd probably buy them a bottle of cheep scotch and watch as they drifted off into everlasting oblivion and congratulate myself on my civic duty to rid the town of another piece of scum

you're welcome, Scotland

Without a moment's thought for what put them in that doorway in the first place.

[Shaker]

This is very much a local measure to tackle a local issue: surprised that those of you outwith Scotland are even bothered by it.

See #87.

Alcohol Health Alliance UK, which includes the British Medical Association and the Royal College of GPs, is drafting a joint letter to the UK government formally urging ministers to reinstate plans for similar measures in England [...] Prof Sir Ian Gilmore, chairman of the Alcohol Health Alliance UK, a group of more than 50 medical colleges, health charities and academic bodies, said: “The spotlight should now fall on England, where cheap alcohol is also causing considerable damage.

“Over 23,000 people in England die every year from alcohol-related causes, many of them coming from the poorest and most vulnerable sections of society. We urge the Westminster government to act now and introduce the measure in England. A failure to do so will needlessly cost more lives."

That took 24 hours.

[Walter]

Because it will happen here.

The slope isn't tremendously slippery: it's been floated before. That Scotland has done it will be a shot in the arm to those who want to see it in England and Wales. Scotland will be the example they point at when trying to foist it upon the populace.

You know - like this ... twenty-four hours ago: http://tinyurl.com/ybbyrhzz

ive got a few quid put by , are you ready to start brewin'

[Walter]

Without a moment's thought for what put them in that doorway in the first place.

I am not their keeper

[jeremyp]

Because it will happen here.

The slope isn't tremendously slippery: it's been floated before. That Scotland has done it will be a shot in the arm to those who want to see it in England and Wales. Scotland will be the example they point at when trying to foist it upon the populace.

You know - like this ... twenty-four hours ago: http://tinyurl.com/ybbyrhzz

Well the sensible thing to do  would be to wait and see if there is any measurable effect on alcoholism in Scotland. If there is, we should consider a similar law, if not then we shouldn't.

[Shaker]

ive got a few quid put by , are you ready to start brewin'

It's not necessary yet Wal but it's coming.

[Walter]

It's not necessary yet Wal but it's coming.

give me the nod and ill be ready 

[jeremyp]

I am not their keeper

No, you've established already you would be their murderer.

[Shaker]

Well the sensible thing to do  would be to wait and see if there is any measurable effect on alcoholism in Scotland. If there is, we should consider a similar law, if not then we shouldn't.

I assume you'll be telling this to

Alcohol Health Alliance UK, which includes the British Medical Association and the Royal College of GPs

who are

drafting a joint letter to the UK government formally urging ministers to reinstate plans for similar measures in England

already. None of this airy fairy wait and see nonsense for these chaps.

[Walter]

No, you've established already you would be their murderer.

I would not force them to drink it, however I might present it on a shiny silver tray with a lead crystal glass and a bowl of nuts . It would be up to them what they did with it .