Author Topic: Goals  (Read 7112 times)

Sriram

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Goals
« on: November 20, 2017, 09:42:36 AM »
Hi everyone,

Here is a BBC article about  Goals.....and why we should give up on them.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20171117-why-we-should-all-give-up-on-goals-already

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To be successful or fulfilled, we all know you need to have specific goals.

To achieve them, you should visualise, plan your steps there and attach deadlines and incentives. Work hard, even if you hate the work. And never stray from the path.

But that outlook, say a growing number of academic researchers, career coaches and thought leaders, isn’t only flawed, it may also, ironically, be keeping us from success.

“The key for success is, if you have somewhere you’d like to be in five years, don’t be so attached to it that it drives everything you do.”

“Goals in themselves aren’t bad,” says Lisa Ordonez, vice dean at University of Arizona’s Eller College of Management. “It’s how we treat them.

Many aren’t necessarily our own ambitions, but what we think we should do.

That disconnect shows up even in the most basic example of what people want versus what they strive for. Most people say their main goal in life is to be happy.

But while research has shown that happiness results from simple things like expressing gratitude rather than buying a bigger house, or by prioritising family over career, our ambitions often focus on the latter. Worse, we may sacrifice personal relationships to get there – even though that’s the kind of trade-off most people come to regret.

That focus on outcome alone feeds into a hamster-wheel mentality. The Bhagavad Gita, the fundamental Hindu text, communicated the downside of this perpetual motion 2,200 years ago: “Those who are motivated only by desire for the fruits of action are miserable, for they are constantly anxious about the results of what they do.”

If you really want to find fulfilment, you have to do something else, too. “Give yourself entirely to your work, yes. But let go of the outcome. Be alike in success and defeat,”

Despite how it sounds, it turns out that living with fewer goals, and with purpose, direction and openness instead, may be an even bigger challenge than sticking to a plan. But it can be more freeing and fulfilling.

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Cheers.

Sriram



Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2017, 10:02:59 AM »
I’ve long thought something similar about goal setting. The important part of the article discusses the impact on the workplace and the increased likelihood that ethics and genuine efficiency go out of the window in order to meet goals. People cheat, aim low to meet the targets and lose compassion. This has huge implications for two very target setting organisations - the NHS and schools.

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2017, 10:30:49 AM »
I’ve long thought something similar about goal setting. The important part of the article discusses the impact on the workplace and the increased likelihood that ethics and genuine efficiency go out of the window in order to meet goals. People cheat, aim low to meet the targets and lose compassion. This has huge implications for two very target setting organisations - the NHS and schools.
unfortunately the industries that provided me with an income all my working life relied entirely on reaching goals .
If an individual failed to meet those goals they were out, looking for another job. To be honest ,it's all I know and it has served me well in my personal and private life too. However I fully understand the essence of the article.
The secret of goal setting is to be realistic . If a goal is obviously unachievable from the start, abandon it. In industry a goal is only achievable if it is agreed between 'management' and 'employee' otherwise its an order as in the military sense.
As for the NHS I have conflicting views on that . if you compare the workings of a private hospital to that of NHS it becomes obvious some goal setting could be useful.
And ,as for schools, a fire cracker up the teachers arses would outstrip the benefits of goal setting in most cases. 

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Goals
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2017, 10:42:37 AM »
West Ham have beening doing that for a while and see where that has got them!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Aruntraveller

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Re: Goals
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2017, 02:07:55 PM »
When private hospitals start running ED's let me know and I will do some comparison of "goals" until that day comes STFU.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 02:28:51 PM »
When private hospitals start running ED's let me know and I will do some comparison of "goals" until that day comes STFU.
Insider knowledge , I'm thinking ?   YCC

Aruntraveller

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Re: Goals
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 02:33:10 PM »
Yes. Sorry for being abrupt. But the field is now so crowded with goalposts that it is nigh on impossible to score.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 02:41:19 PM »
Yes. Sorry for being abrupt. But the field is now so crowded with goalposts that it is nigh on impossible to score.
honestly, you do have my sympathy , however during my recent stay there were a few things that obviously required attention .

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Goals
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 02:45:43 PM »
Yes. Sorry for being abrupt. But the field is now so crowded with goalposts that it is nigh on impossible to score.

Indeed. And in too many cases the "goals" are those for which targets are easy to measure, not those which tell you how well a complex organisation is engaged in complex activities.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 02:49:05 PM by Harrowby Hall »
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Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 03:12:09 PM »
honestly, you do have my sympathy , however during my recent stay there were a few things that obviously required attention .

How do you know that targets would solve the problems that you observed? How do you know that the culture of target setting isn't the cause of them?

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 03:18:06 PM »
How do you know that targets would solve the problems that you observed? How do you know that the culture of target setting isn't the cause of them?
I could have used my management skills to set small achievable goals in a local environment to improve the running of some aspects of the ward I was on . Does that help ?

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 03:19:50 PM »
I could have used my management skills to set small achievable goals in a local environment to improve the running of some aspects of the ward I was on . Does that help ?

No, because you don't know that target setting elsewhere diverts resources to the extent that your small changes would not be possible.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Goals
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »
I think the article in the OP confuses things that are called goals but at very different levels.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Goals
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 03:24:32 PM »
No, because you don't know that target setting elsewhere diverts resources to the extent that your small changes would not be possible.
Then - let's do whatever - you seem to be arguing that there is no absolute measurement and therefore no measurement is worthwhile.

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 03:26:07 PM »
Then - let's do whatever - you seem to be arguing that there is no absolute measurement and therefore no measurement is worthwhile.

No, what I am saying is that Walter couldn't judge because he didn't know what would override the changes he would make. If Walter was actually employed on the ward he would know whether targets were something that he could implement or not.

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »
Then - let's do whatever - you seem to be arguing that there is no absolute measurement and therefore no measurement is worthwhile.
exactly.

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 03:27:36 PM »
I think the article in the OP confuses things that are called goals but at very different levels.

A big problem is that people have taken what works in a corporate setting - sometimes - and transferred them to the self help sector - like 'happiness' is an achievable goal in the same was as 'packing ten boxes' is.

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 03:29:08 PM »
exactly.

So if you say to me, 'pack ten boxes' why should I pack 16? Bearing in mind that if you pay me per box I might cheat or cut corners.

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 03:30:45 PM »
No, what I am saying is that Walter couldn't judge because he didn't know what would override the changes he would make. If Walter was actually employed on the ward he would know whether targets were something that he could implement or not.
to be more specific , the targets I would have set would've been regarding staff attitude and speed of performing tasks.

It's minor in the scheme of things  but small steps lead to bigger ones

Nearly Sane

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Re: Goals
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 03:32:01 PM »
No, what I am saying is that Walter couldn't judge because he didn't know what would override the changes he would make. If Walter was actually employed on the ward he would know whether targets were something that he could implement or not.
But would he know what resources would be diverted from other goals? How would he know that? Does Walter have perfect knowledge? Or rather does someone on the ground have perfect knowledge?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Goals
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 03:32:55 PM »
So if you say to me, 'pack ten boxes' why should I pack 16? Bearing in mind that if you pay me per box I might cheat or cut corners.
So you shouldn't be told to pack any boxes? Or 7? Or 21?

Walter

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Re: Goals
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2017, 03:34:49 PM »
So if you say to me, 'pack ten boxes' why should I pack 16? Bearing in mind that if you pay me per box I might cheat or cut corners.
if your instruction was to pack 10 then pack ten , if you cant take instruction you're in the wrong job

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2017, 03:35:41 PM »
So you shouldn't be told to pack any boxes? Or 7? Or 21?

I'm going by the findings such as those in the article. Target setting of this kind means that people cheat.

How many times have you had an Amazon delivery that has the wrong stuff, or is broken, or has one tiny thing in a massive box, wasting resources because the packer was in a rush? Targets do not mean efficiency.

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2017, 03:36:26 PM »
if your instruction was to pack 10 then pack ten , if you cant take instruction you're in the wrong job

Wouldn't you rather I packed more? Why limit my efficiency? we are talking targets here, not orders.

Rhiannon

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Re: Goals
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2017, 03:37:12 PM »
to be more specific , the targets I would have set would've been regarding staff attitude and speed of performing tasks.

It's minor in the scheme of things  but small steps lead to bigger ones

I agree totally about attitude being key, but how can you set goals to encourage or enforce that?