Dowsing

[Nearly Sane]

If you dowse and find water or a pipe or whatever you have found something tangible. If you don’t the person who needs to find it might be a bit pissed but it’s not the end of the world.

Spiritualism promises to help people contact dead relations and if they are exposed as cold reading or in fraud (committed consciously or otherwise) then the consequences can be gut wrenching. And there is nothing tangible to find, is there?

Irrelevant to whether you consider one working or not by the analogy. I don't see the harm caused by being wrong relates to whether something works.

[Rhiannon]

What is the harm in being ‘wrong’ about dowsing for water? Would you think it ok to dowse if you think it a tool for accessing the subconscious but not if you think the pixies direct the rods?

[Nearly Sane]

What is the harm in being ‘wrong’ about dowsing for water? Would you think it ok to dowse if you think it a tool for accessing the subconscious but not if you think the pixies direct the rods?

I've just said that the harm is irrelevant to it being wring, so don't understand the relevance of the question. But the harm in promoting bad thinking is the that it's the same sort of stuff as anti vax nonsense from which people die.

[Walter]

What is the harm in being ‘wrong’ about dowsing for water? Would you think it ok to dowse if you think it a tool for accessing the subconscious but not if you think the pixies direct the rods?

muddled thinking here , dowsing has been debunked . why are you trying to conflate things?

[Robbie]

For dowsing to be successful, the Diviner first of all has to familiarise him/herself with the area by studying the ley lines, then when on site a bit of feng shui helps her or him to harmonise with the environment.

[Walter]

For dowsing to be successful, the Diviner first of all has to familiarise him/herself with the area by studying the ley lines, then when on site a bit of feng shui helps her or him to harmonise with the environment.

I hope you're having a laugh , otherwise I would recommend you watch that documentary we were talking about last week , you know , the one you and Rhi were outraged by aimed at 'moms'

[Robbie]

Oooh you beast, you, you are awful!
(Fair do's, I made it up as I went along)

[Walter]

Oooh you beast, you, you are awful!
(Fair do's, I made it up as I went along)

Robbie........ you are becoming a bit of a tease 

[Rhiannon]

muddled thinking here , dowsing has been debunked . why are you trying to conflate things?

No, dowsing can work under certain conditions. It’s likely that dowsers subconsciously read the landscape or environment. It doesn’t work in situations where that isn’t possible.

What is debunked is that there is anything about vibes or biofields or pixies behind it.

[Rhiannon]

For dowsing to be successful, the Diviner first of all has to familiarise him/herself with the area by studying the ley lines, then when on site a bit of feng shui helps her or him to harmonise with the environment.

It’s of the divil. The divil I tells thee.

[Walter]

No, dowsing can work under certain conditions. It’s likely that dowsers subconsciously read the landscape or environment. It doesn’t work in situations where that isn’t possible.

What is debunked is that there is anything about vibes or biofields or pixies behind it.

okay Rhi, you have just confirmed you are the target market for the documentary I just mentioned.

condemned by your own words!

[Rhiannon]

okay Rhi, you have just confirmed you are the target market for the documentary I just mentioned.

condemned by your own words!

Ffs. Read Jeremy P’s posts, he’s saying exactly the same thing. Do you think he needs ‘science moms too? Funny, your prejudice is showing in spades

Do not patronise me.

[Walter]

Ffs. Read Jeremy P’s posts, he’s saying exactly the same thing. Do you think he needs ‘science moms too? Funny, your prejudice is showing in spades

Do not patronise me.

don't know which post of jeremyp you're referring to ive gone back and read them but don't know what you mean

and don't play your sexism card on me , ill patronise whoever I like .

[Robbie]

Jeremy's first post on page one seems to fit, you may not have gone back that far.

[Walter]

Jeremy's first post on page one seems to fit, you may not have gone back that far.

well I've looked back to the beginning and still nothing , besides he doesn't appear on my page one ? what number post?

[Robbie]

Sorry, page two.

I think we probably need to think about what it means to say "it works". I've seen televised experiments with water diviners where the diviner was able to detect water quite easily, right up until the moment when they introduced a double blind protocol. At that point the diviners stopped being able to do any better than random chance. There's nothing inherent about water that makes divining work.

However things buried in the ground are rarely concealed as well as in a double blind experiment. There are often subtle signs on the surface that the diviner might pick up subconsciously and transmit to his or her rod via the ideomotor effect. For example water close to the surface may manifest as greener grass or softer soil. Pipes are usually laid in trenches so there might be a dip, or the vegetation might be less healthy or the ground might sound different as you walk over it.

[Walter]

Rhi

Ive gone back and re-read your post only to find I misread it
I owe you a most sincere apology . I got it wrong , my mistake and I withdraw my 'documentary' comment

Please don't spank me too hard

[Rhiannon]

Rhi

Ive gone back and re-read your post only to find I misread it
I owe you a most sincere apology . I got it wrong , my mistake and I withdraw my 'documentary' comment

Please don't spank me too hard

Thank you, Walter, that’s most gracious of you.

I’ll be gentle with you in future, I promise. 

[Walter]

Thank you, Walter, that’s most gracious of you.

I’ll be gentle with you in future, I promise.

you may have noticed , I don't mind a bit of rough and tumble 

[Rhiannon]

you may have noticed , I don't mind a bit of rough and tumble 

 

[Sassy]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/21/uk-water-firms-admit-using-divining-rods-to-find-leaks-and-pipes

No issue with water companies being told not to use it. But 'medieval witchcraft'? Don't be so fucking stupid.

Anyone with common sense know it is an excuse not to spend money...

[Sriram]

Sigh!!

Most people seem to think in two boxes. Something is either Science or it is Supernatural (woo).  This kind of 'either or' thinking is nonsense.  It is the old school thinking. Come to the 21st Century guys!

Reality is a spectrum ranging from the hard and precise observations of Physics and maths at one end ...to the less precise areas of chemistry and biology.... to the even less observable areas of Psychology. And it doesn't stop there.....

There are many more subtle phenomena such as the Biofield, Prana, Consciousness and Spiritual realities that are not observable and measurable to the same extent as the less subtle areas of reality.  We can't be sure where the other end of the spectrum is.

Now don't tell me...'so prove that in terms of hard, objective, measurable evidence and we will agree'. That doesn't make sense. Psychology cannot be treated the way we treat Physics. Much more so with the even more subtle areas of reality.

[Sriram]

We know for a fact that Dowsing works. Therefore, instead of the usual blinkered denial...people should get serious about investigating how it works. This might require  some adventurous, lateral thinking instead of the same old silly and standard ideas of the paranormal vs Natural phenomena. 

Most people might think that they are harboring modern and progressive ideas while in fact the shoe could now be on the other foot. The so called progressive and scientific thinkers could now be the old world traditionalists who are standing in the way of progressive thinking. The old school scientists are now the Conservatives! Things are moving on...keep up guys!

[Maeght]

We know for a fact that Dowsing works. Therefore, instead of the usual blinkered denial...people should get serious about investigating how it works. This might require  some adventurous, lateral thinking instead of the same old silly and standard ideas of the paranormal vs Natural phenomena. 

Most people might think that they are harboring modern and progressive ideas while in fact the shoe could now be on the other foot. The so called progressive and scientific thinkers could now be the old world traditionalists who are standing in the way of progressive thinking. The old school scientists are now the Conservatives! Things are moving on...keep up guys!

I'm sure you think this is correct but that's because you live in a world full of woo beliefs.

[Rhiannon]

I’m not adverse to the possibility that there is new stuff to discover, but dowsing isn’t the key to it - it’s just a great way of demonstrating the power of the subconscious.