Dowsing

[Maeght]

I’m not adverse to the possibility that there is new stuff to discover, but dowsing isn’t the key to it - it’s just a great way of demonstrating the power of the subconscious.

I don't think anyone is adverse to that,despite what Sriram thinks.

[Rhiannon]

I don't think anyone is adverse to that,despite what Sriram thinks.

Indeed.

[Walter]

We know for a fact that Dowsing works. Therefore, instead of the usual blinkered denial...people should get serious about investigating how it works. This might require  some adventurous, lateral thinking instead of the same old silly and standard ideas of the paranormal vs Natural phenomena.

firstly, show that it works because I haven't seen it

secondly , please, please, please tell me how we can investigate it again because it's been done already and been shown not to work


repeatedly weighing a pig wont make it any heavier !

[ProfessorDavey]

We know for a fact that Dowsing works.

No we don't - I have never seen any properly conducted experiment that indicates that it works. If you know of one please provide a link.

I am aware of an experiment that I think Derren Brown conducted that demonstrated that it didn't work. Interestingly at the start of the experiment the participants (the dowsers) all accepted that the experimental set up was entirely valid and all were convicted that they would be able to identify where the water was. When they failed to do so they then blamed the experimental set up!!

[floo]

Only a few people appear to have the dowsing skill in my opinion. Having seen it in action it is pretty convincing. My father and uncles certainly weren't messing around when using it to discover where to sink the wells on their properties.

[Maeght]

Only a few people appear to have the dowsing skill in my opinion. Having seen it in action it is pretty convincing. My father and uncles certainly weren't messing around when using it to discover where to sink the wells on their properties.

Anecdotes don't count as evidence though Floo so for now it remains only your opinion of course.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Floo. Am I right in saying that two of your interests are the skill of dowsing and pulling people up for making unsubstantiated claims?

[Walter]

Floo. Am I right in saying that two of your interests are the skill of dowsing and pulling people up for making unsubstantiated claims?

hahaha , at least one post of yours I can agree with 

[floo]

Have any of you witnessed dowsing?

[Rhiannon]

Have any of you witnessed dowsing?

More than that; I’ve tried it.

[Enki]

More than that; I’ve tried it.

So have I !

[Robbie]

Gosh Rhiannon and enki, I'm impressed! I wrongly assumed no-one on this thread (including me) had any personal experience of dowsing.

[Nearly Sane]

And another who has tried it. However, neither seeing it nor having tried it means you can say that it works, or if it does work how it does so.

[jeremyp]

And dowsing isn't defined by reading clues unconsciously from the environment. I think you might be thinking I am talkung about people deliberately cold reading as oppised to doing it unconsciously.

No, dowsing is defined as finding water (or other stuff) by some means unknown but usually excluding mundane means like seeing it or drilling bore holes. Spiritualism is defined as talking to the spirits of the dead. If dowsing works by subconscious clues, you are still finding water. If a spiritualist is cold reading, they are not talking to dead people (even if they really think they are).

[Nearly Sane]

No, dowsing is defined as finding water (or other stuff) by some means unknown but usually excluding mundane means like seeing it or drilling bore holes. Spiritualism is defined as talking to the spirits of the dead. If dowsing works by subconscious clues, you are still finding water. If a spiritualist is cold reading, they are not talking to dead people (even if they really think they are).

If someone is finding accurate information about someone by subconscious means it's the same as finding water by subconscious means. Dowsing isn't a claim that it's theindividual finding it by subconscious means and creating their own ideomotor effects.

[Rhiannon]

If someone is finding accurate information about someone by subconscious means it's the same as finding water by subconscious means. Dowsing isn't a claim that it's theindividual finding it by subconscious means and creating their own ideomotor effects.

You left out ‘by talking to dead people’. I’m not aware that dowsers offer their skills as evidence that your auntie sue is telling them where the water is.

[jeremyp]

If someone is finding accurate information about someone by subconscious means it's the same as finding water by subconscious means.

I agree.

However, spiritualism isn't finding accurate information about somebody. That's merely one of the tricks that spiritualists do to convince people that they can communicate with the dead.

[Nearly Sane]

You left out ‘by talking to dead people’. I’m not aware that dowsers offer their skills as evidence that your auntie sue is telling them where the water is.

No, I didn't leave out talking to dead people.  because that isn't the comparable part of the dowsing claim. Neither people who might claim to be talked to by dead people to tell people facts but through  subconscious cold reading, or dowsers who claim to find water by tapping into energies but through subconscious reading of environmental clues ate correct in their approach. Both are proffering an 'expkanatiin' which ignores the possible subconscious one.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree.

However, spiritualism isn't finding accurate information about somebody. That's merely one of the tricks that spiritualists do to convince people that they can communicate with the dead.

That there are crooks who tout spiritualism and crooks who tout dowsing is true. We're talking about those who think they are channelling into something mistakenly here, and coming up with an invalid explanation.

[Bramble]

Many years ago a friend and I were introduced to dowsing by one of our university lecturers, who had invited us to his house for a meal. He asked us both - independently and without witnessing each other - to walk across his lawn holding wire dowsing rods. He didn't give us any further instructions, nor did he mention trying to find water or anything else. We were simply asked to see what, if anything, might happen. So as not to influence us in any way he retired behind a window where he could watch us but we couldn't see him.

I found that at certain places my dowsing rods crossed quite forcefully, as if by themselves, and they crossed at the same places whenever I walked across the lawn. I noticed that even when I squeezed the rod handles the rods still moved, apparently against resistence. My friend's dowsing rods reacted at exactly the same places, but what most surprised her was that hers didn't cross but moved apart instead, something she hadn't expected (she later discovered that dowsing rods always moved apart for her and never crossed). Our host didn't seem at all surprised by any of this and explained that the places where the rods moved were over the known location of drains. We had no proof of that but there was no obvious reason to doubt him. Whether or not the movement of the rods had anything to do with water it was certainly curious that they moved for both of us at identical spots.

The recent media attention on dowsing rekindled these memories and I decided yesterday to make myself a pair of rods out of fencing wire and try to find our outside stop tap, which has become lost in undergrowth. Sadly, I have to report that it is still lost!

[Walter]

That there are crooks who tout spiritualism and crooks who tout dowsing is true. We're talking about those who think they are channelling into something mistakenly here, and coming up with an invalid explanation.

it must be true , look at this ;

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjdk9vPr9fXAhUDIMAKHVOMC70QFghAMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waterdowsing.co.uk%2Fprofessionalwaterdowsercertificate.htm&usg=AOvVaw2XMiOLS2ErxZLgWlKcD-s1

[Walter]

Many years ago a friend and I were introduced to dowsing by one of our university lecturers, who had invited us to his house for a meal. He asked us both - independently and without witnessing each other - to walk across his lawn holding wire dowsing rods. He didn't give us any further instructions, nor did he mention trying to find water or anything else. We were simply asked to see what, if anything, might happen. So as not to influence us in any way he retired behind a window where he could watch us but we couldn't see him.

I found that at certain places my dowsing rods crossed quite forcefully, as if by themselves, and they crossed at the same places whenever I walked across the lawn. I noticed that even when I squeezed the rod handles the rods still moved, apparently against resistence. My friend's dowsing rods reacted at exactly the same places, but what most surprised her was that hers didn't cross but moved apart instead, something she hadn't expected (she later discovered that dowsing rods always moved apart for her and never crossed). Our host didn't seem at all surprised by any of this and explained that the places where the rods moved were over the known location of drains. We had no proof of that but there was no obvious reason to doubt him. Whether or not the movement of the rods had anything to do with water it was certainly curious that they moved for both of us at identical spots.

The recent media attention on dowsing rekindled these memories and I decided yesterday to make myself a pair of rods out of fencing wire and try to find our outside stop tap, which has become lost in undergrowth. Sadly, I have to report that it is still lost!

lovely story, I read it while having coffee and a biscuit

[Sriram]

I don't think anyone is adverse to that,despite what Sriram thinks.

What? You probably mean averse...

But even assuming that the divining rods are affected by our subconscious mind...how does the subconscious mind know there the water is? 

[Shaker]

What? You probably mean averse...

But even assuming that the divining rods are affected by our subconscious mind...how does the subconscious mind know there the water is?

See JP's #34.

[Sebastian Toe]

What? You probably mean averse...

But even assuming that the divining rods are affected by our subconscious mind...how does the subconscious mind know there the water is?

Do you have a record of every time the dowsers failed to find water, despite it being under their feet?