Dowsing

[Maeght]

No. For that to be the case I would have to be a credulous clown, and you and your ilk have cornered the market on that with your biofield nonsense and suchlike. There's nothing to congratulate in gullibility.

I'm defending the scientific enterprise. As are, it would seem, Anglian Water, who as far as I can tell with complete transparency initiated an experiment in view of one and all with any results to be made freely available online. (An experiment to which the one who instigated it is yet to respond AFAIK). I'm happy with that; I can't see why anyone wouldn't be.

I'm happy to see a properly carried out and transparent test too. Not sure anyone has said otherwise on here.

[Shaker]

I haven't followed all of this but have they offered a properly designed, double blind experiment or just "come along and watch our bloke with his coat hangers"?

I'd be all in favour of the former but the latter is valueless.

I can't tell you that - the invitation can be found in links in the early pages of this thread.

I assume that if Sally Le Page wants to be seen as more than a blustering keyboard warrior she'll take up the offer and between them she and the water company can thrash out a mutually agreeable procedure.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm happy to see a properly carried out and transparent test too. Not sure anyone has said otherwise on here.

But I think there already have been plenty, including ones conducted 'in the field' as it were, looking water in buried pipes. In every case the likelihood of finding the water was no better than that which would have occurred by random chance.

Summary here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Studies

[Maeght]

But I think there already have been plenty, including ones conducted 'in the field' as it were, looking water in buried pipes. In every case the likelihood of finding the water was no better than that which would have occurred by random chance.

Summary here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Studies

Yes indeed, but if someone is willing to carry out another one it does no harm so why not? There is of course the risk that if it shows a particular result people who hold a view which is different to the result will disregard the experiment but that is always a risk and not a reason to oppose doing the experiment.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes indeed, but if someone is willing to carry out another one it does no harm so why not? There is of course the risk that if it shows a particular result people who hold a view which is different to the result will disregard the experiment but that is always a risk and not a reason to oppose doing the experiment.

Sure, but a someone pointless exercise.

What I think is actually more interesting is the psychology here - the dowsers clearly genuinely think it works, even though it doesn't. Why else would they agree to take part in the studies unless they were convinced it worked. If they knew it was a con trick they'd never go near a proper study would they.

[Maeght]

Sure, but a someone pointless exercise.

What I think is actually more interesting is the psychology here - the dowsers clearly genuinely think it works, even though it doesn't. Why else would they agree to take part in the studies unless they were convinced it worked. If they knew it was a con trick they'd never go near a proper study would they.

Indeed.

[Stranger]

I can't tell you that - the invitation can be found in links in the early pages of this thread.

I found this:-

If you've ever tried to find a water pipe underground then you'll know that it can be very difficult you will try anything. We're happy to take you out and demonstrate...

So, no indication that they would be prepared to fund a properly designed experiment. If somebody wants to do more science on it (despite all the past failures) that's fine but I see no indication that that is what is being offered.

[Shaker]

So, no indication that they would be prepared to fund a properly designed experiment.

Or any indication otherwise.

[floo]

I wish my father was still alive, he would have been thrilled to have taken part in experiment to have verified, or not, the credibility of dowsing.

[Nearly Sane]

I can't tell you that - the invitation can be found in links in the early pages of this thread.

I assume that if Sally Le Page wants to be seen as more than a blustering keyboard warrior she'll take up the offer and between them she and the water company can thrash out a mutually agreeable procedure.

So the answer to Stranger's question is that you don't know that any such offer, to a double blind experiment, is what was offered but you'll pretrnd tgat was the offer because it suits you to do so.

[Rhiannon]

It's getting a bit cold for the picnic though tbh.

[Shaker]

So the answer to Stranger's question is that you don't know that any such offer, to a double blind experiment, is what was offered but you'll pretrnd tgat was the offer because it suits you to do so.

No I'm not pretending any such thing. I can only assume that's your characteristically, er ... individual interpretation.

[Stranger]

So, no indication that they would be prepared to fund a properly designed experiment.

Or any indication otherwise.

I don't have any indication that the The Philatelic Traders’ Society isn't prepared to fund it either.

[Shaker]

I don't have any indication that the The Philatelic Traders’ Society isn't prepared to fund it either.

Depends if it gets Sally Le Page's stamp of approval I guess.

[Nearly Sane]

No I'm not pretending any such thing. I can only assume that's your characteristically, er ... individual interpretation.

Yes, you are. That was a specific question from Stranger to which you have insufficient information but you have gave a positive answer. The Dunning Kruger is strong with you.

[Nearly Sane]

Or any indication otherwise.


I don't have any indication that the The Philatelic Traders’ Society isn't prepared to fund it either.

Irrelevant

[Shaker]

Yes, you are. That was a specific question from Stranger to which you have insufficient information but you have gave a positive answer. The Dunning Kruger is strong with you.

What was my positive answer?

[Nearly Sane]

What was my positive answer?

That Anglian Water are supportive of a proper double blind experiment. Which is what Stranger asked. When you stated there was no indication otherwise, that waa such  a rather lovely attempt to use the NPF, I almost clapped.

[Shaker]

That Anglian Water are supportive of a proper double blind experiment. Which is what Stranger asked. When you stated there was no indication otherwise, that waa such  a rather lovely attempt to use the NPF, I almost clapped.

Unfortunately your interpretationometer has gone awry - must be the weather.

You claimed I'd given Stranger a positive answer (to Stranger's question about Anglian Water offering a proper double blind experiment).

He said there was no indication that they had. I said that there was no indication that they hadn't. Both are true - there's no indication either way since there are no facts to go on yet (as la Le Page hasn't to my knowledge made any arrangements to take Anglian Water up on their offer).

If that to you is a positive answer you'd be better off joining forces with the like of Alan Burns et hoc genus omne - much more their style.

[Nearly Sane]

Unfortunately your interpretationometer has gone awry - must be the weather.

You claimed I'd given Stranger a positive answer (to Stranger's question about Anglian Water offering a proper double blind experiment).

He said there was no indication that they had. I said that there was no indication that they hadn't. Both are true - there's no indication either way since there are no facts to go on yet (as la Le Page hasn't to my knowledge made any arrangements to take Anglian Water up on their offer).

If that to you is a positive answer you'd be better off joining forces with the like of Alan Burns et hoc genus omne - much more their style.

and you then called out Sally Le Page on the basis of her not taking up the 'offer' as if it was a sensible experiment that was being offered.

[Shaker]

and you then called out Sally Le Page on the basis of her not taking up the 'offer' as if it was a sensible experiment that was being offered.

I'm unaware of what's been offered specifically and precisely in terms of experimental testing and whether it was sensible or not, and said so - there are no data here that I know of to date but if you know better, by all means enlighten us all.

Miss Le Page could let us know, perchance?

[Nearly Sane]

I'm unaware of what's been offered specifically and precisely in terms of experimental testing and whether it was sensible or not, and said so - there are no data here that I know of to date but if you know better, by all means enlighten us all.

Miss Le Page could let us know, perchance?

so making the jydgement of Le Page is unevidemec and a use of the NPF.


Any reason why you used Miss to refer to her?

[Shaker]

so making the jydgement of Le Page is unevidemec and a use of the NPF.

I fear your NPF detector is similarly on the blink.

Any reason why you used Miss to refer to her?

What other term am I supposed to have used?

[Nearly Sane]

I fear your NPF detector is similarly on the blink.What other term am I supposed to have used?

Is it? You are calling her out as if the offer was a significant one with no evidence. That reads like an NPF.


And why use any term here that both vovers her sex and martied status irrelevantly? You could just have said Le Page, so why did you use the irrelevant term?

[Shaker]

Is ot?

Yas.

You are calling her out as if the offer was a significant one with no evidence.

No. I've answered this one already. Whether the offer was significant (significant I assume you mean in terms of proper procedural scientific rigour) is as yet undetermined as there's insufficient evidence that it was or was not.

That reads like an NPF.

I fear I can help you no further.

And why use any term here that both vovers her sex and martied status irrelevantly? You could just have said Le Page, so why did you use the irrelevant term?

Using a surname alone always strikes me as a trifle brusque.