The Christmas 2017 thread

[Rhiannon]

In all seriousness, I'd just like to put across how hard Xmas can be for people and how difficult the pressure to 'have a great time' can be. Because I don't throw myself into it I get called a 'scrooge'. to my face sometimes, and by people who I think of as friends. I'm told that it only takes a change of mindset and I, too, will welcome the plastic shit and flashing lights into my home and feel that special Xmas magic.

Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that.

If you associate Christmas with trauma of any kind or with being shown how different your life is to other peoples' then the whole thing  can trigger memories that you wish you didn't have and 'Christmas fun' is meaningless. And please bear in mind that it isn't just adults that get these experiences, it is children too.

I hate having Christmas thrown in my face. Maybe one day I won't. Until then feel free to call me a 'scrooge' and tell me to pull myself out of it and I'll pretend to laugh along with you.

[Shaker]

I prefer to decorate the house when it isn't Xmas so we have twisted willow with lights and little sparkly things up all year round.

One can do both 

[Aruntraveller]

You don't sound like a "scrooge" to me. Just a very human being.

We all have different experiences in life which make us form feelings and opinions about issues which the majority find hard to understand. I hate the herd instinct that quite often surfaces around issues like this.

Anyhow for me the main thing at Christmas is to stay warm, drink good ale and watch Dr Who. Christmassy or what?

[Rhiannon]

One can do both 

You left out the 'scrooge' bit.

[Shaker]

You left out the 'scrooge' bit.

I took that as read 

[Rhiannon]

You don't sound like a "scrooge" to me. Just a very human being.

We all have different experiences in life which make us form feelings and opinions about issues which the majority find hard to understand. I hate the herd instinct that quite often surfaces around issues like this.

Anyhow for me the main thing at Christmas is to stay warm, drink good ale and watch Dr Who. Christmassy or what?

Thanks, Trent. I'm astonished by the total lack of empathy that so many people get around this time of year. Because they love it they can't accept that it hurts other people. It's not even a religious thing any more.

I'm not a Who fan but I do like the whole staying snug and warm thing, and will carry that through to January and beyond, when so many other people are moaning about Xmas being over and real life kicking in I'll be enjoying the everyday stuff just as much as before, and without the need for tinsel and glitter.

[Rhiannon]

I took that as read 

Have you actually bothered reading anything I've said? Or do you just think it's funny? Ffs.

[floo]

In all seriousness, I'd just like to put across how hard Xmas can be for people and how difficult the pressure to 'have a great time' can be. Because I don't throw myself into it I get called a 'scrooge'. to my face sometimes, and by people who I think of as friends. I'm told that it only takes a change of mindset and I, too, will welcome the plastic shit and flashing lights into my home and feel that special Xmas magic.

Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that.

If you associate Christmas with trauma of any kind or with being shown how different your life is to other peoples' then the whole thing  can trigger memories that you wish you didn't have and 'Christmas fun' is meaningless. And please bear in mind that it isn't just adults that get these experiences, it is children too.

I hate having Christmas thrown in my face. Maybe one day I won't. Until then feel free to call me a 'scrooge' and tell me to pull myself out of it and I'll pretend to laugh along with you.

I am sorry you associate Christmas with bad experiences in your life, that is really sad; I can quite understand why you dislike the festival.

[Nearly Sane]

I agree with Trentvoyager, I look on Christmas as an opportunity to avoid people and get away. I quite like it then just being cosy but the whole jolly holly stuff leaves me cold. We are away this year so there will be no decorations. There are a few little traditions of our own we keep, but that's about keeping it just about us.  Like Rhiannon there are sparkly lights all year round and We have a 'tree' which is a set of coloured lights in a plastic tree shape that is used all year round.

The thing that makes it worse for people is that, as Rhiannon has raised, if you don't join in, you're made to feel worse by being told off  for not doing so.

[Shaker]

I agree with Trentvoyager, I look on Christmas as an opportunity to avoid people and get away.

Now there's something I do all year round.

[Rhiannon]

I am sorry you associate Christmas with bad experiences in your life, that is really sad; I can quite understand why you dislike the festival.

Thanks, Floo.

[Rhiannon]

The thing that makes it worse for people is that, as Rhiannon has raised, if you don't join in, you're made to feel worse by being told off  for not doing so.

Absolutely. It's like telling people with depression to 'cheer up, it might never happen'. You'd think we'd be more clued up now but apparently not.

One thing my daughter struggles with is the endless 'proper family fun' adverts that she can't escape on Youtube. She hates it.

[Rhiannon]

I agree with NS about personal traditions. As a family we do non Xmas traditions of our own and are inventing new ones. Last year we planted trees. We also always have a Xmas Eve fire pit in the garden.

[Nearly Sane]

It's odd really - given the massive spread of Christmas so that it starts late October - which was when I heard the first set of Christmas songs in a shop, there are lots of people who express the Bah humbug sentiment but it seems as if it becomes even more pressurised to join in each year as well. That we get that along with the whole 'they are trying to ban Christmas' stuff is just bizarre.

[Aruntraveller]

'they are trying to ban Christmas'

Hmmm.....whenever I hear that particularly stupid theory there is a little scrooge-like part of me that says "if only they would" - I try to quash it, but still it bubbles just under the surface waiting to make me sound like the Grinch.

[Shaker]

That we get that along with the whole 'they are trying to ban Christmas' stuff is just bizarre.

I don't see that that even exists in this country though. I'm prepared to believe that it may well be a thing in the States for example, with their customarily insane and toxic blend of Christianity, patriotism, tradition and what have you, but I don't see that it's a thing here - not even in the fevered minds of Daily Mail leader writers, who I don't think even believe the wretched horseshit that they come up with.

[Nearly Sane]

I feel sympathy with those Christians who say that it's missing the 'true' meaning of Christmas for them. I must be getting old but I remember with affection when it was a much smaller thing.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see that that even exists in this country though. I'm prepared to believe that it may well be a thing in the States for example, with their customarily insane and toxic blend of Christianity, patriotism, tradition and what have you, but I don't see that it's a thing here - not even in the fevered minds of Daily Mail leader writers, who I don't think even believe the wretched horseshit that they come up with.

Depends - there was the stushie about the 'Muslims' in the Christmas advert

[Rhiannon]

It's odd really - given the massive spread of Christmas so that it starts late October - which was when I heard the first set of Christmas songs in a shop, there are lots of people who express the Bah humbug sentiment but it seems as if it becomes even more pressurised to join in each year as well. That we get that along with the whole 'they are trying to ban Christmas' stuff is just bizarre.

I think the the pressure to make it 'perfect' is getting worse, definitely. Just been reading the the ideal gift for a new partner is 'something small, but the best - a cashmere scarf for example'. Wtf? Mind, this was in the Graun.

I don't get why people idealise Christmas when all that attitude serves is to flag up how crap everything else is by comparison. Why not be thoughtful all year round? Why not tell people that you love them and that you love being with them at every opportunity? Why not plan treats and special things just because? Why fake it once a year?

[Shaker]

I feel sympathy with those Christians who say that it's missing the 'true' meaning of Christmas for them.

I don't. That's just a whine, isn't it - "You're not doing things the way I do them and think you should do them" - the battle-cry of authoritarians everywhere since for ever.

Christmas is for everyone who wants it to do it however they want. Admittedly there isn't perfect freedom here given that there are (often, or usually) other people involved; trying to do Christmas the way you want and like it can be tricky when others (typically older relatives) want to stick to something they know. But we're all adults and it's just a matter of putting your foot down kindly but firmly when need be or even, heaven help us, be willing to be open to trying something new for once.

[Rhiannon]

Christmas is for everyone who wants it to do it however they want.

Including being left alone to not do it? I don't see you advocating that one.

[Owlswing]

I feel sympathy with those Christians who say that it's missing the 'true' meaning of Christmas for them. I must be getting old but I remember with affection when it was a much smaller thing.

Agreed.

Ask any child up, to the age of about 10 or so, what the true meaning of Christmas is and I think 98.76% will tell you it is presents and about 12.34% adding Granpa vomiting over the Christmas tree after eating too much turkey and Chjristmas pudding.

Maybe I, like you, NS, am getting old, but I am almost certainly also getting very cynical about my "fellow" man at the same time.

Something along the lines of Tom Lehrer and his "A Christmas Carol"; I know it was written for America but it is almost the same here now.

Songwriters: CHARLES IVES

A Christmas Carol lyrics © THEODORE PRESSER COMPANY

Christmas time is here, by golly,
Disapproval would be folly,
Deck the halls with hunks of holly,
Fill the cup and don't say "when."
Kill the turkeys, ducks and chickens,
Mix the punch, drag out the Dickens,
Even though the prospect sickens,
Brother, here we go again.

On Christmas Day you can't get sore,
Your fellow man you must adore,
There's time to rob him all the more
The other three hundred and sixty-four.

Relations, sparing no expense'll
Send some useless old utensil,
Or a matching pen and pencil.
"just the thing I need! how nice!"
It doesn't matter how sincere it
Is, nor how heartfelt the spirit,
Sentiment will not endear it,
What's important is the price.

Hark the Herald Tribune sings,
Advertising wondrous things.
God rest ye merry merchants,
May you make the yuletide pay.
Angels we have heard on high
Tell us to go out and buy!

So let the raucous sleigh bells jingle,
Hail our dear old friend Kris Kringle,
Driving his reindeer across the sky.
Don't stand underneath when they fly by.

Actually I did rather well myself, this last christmas. The nicest present I received was a gift certificate "good at any hospital for a lobotomy".

Rather thoughtful.

[Rhiannon]

I feel sympathy with those Christians who say that it's missing the 'true' meaning of Christmas for them. I must be getting old but I remember with affection when it was a much smaller thing.

I actually agree - not so much with the religion thing but with the 'smaller' thing. In many ways my childhood Xmasses were as fake as can be right down to the plastic tree, but they were also so much more authentic than is supposed to happen now. Nothing had to be 'perfect', just fun, and my mum always left the parsnips in the oven to burn.

[Shaker]

Including being left alone to not do it? I don't see you advocating that one.

Sure, if that's your bag. But relentless negativity is incredibly wearing after the first five minutes or so - see any Remain voter for details. (Political material always an option, kids).

If we had a national show of hands of who associates Christmas with something traumatic there would be a great many hands in the air. I mean millions - in the tens of millions, probably. It's not unusual. It's not special. I could tie trauma to Christmas if I chose to. Not just one but a series of them, a run of them in the 1990s so horrific that, careful writer that I try to be, I don't even possess the vocabulary to describe their wretchedness even if I wanted to, which I wouldn't. A quarter of a century on and with a beard increasingly more white than brown I can still be a prisoner of that or I can make Christmas my own. I chose the latter. I'm decidedly in the Julian Barbour camp: I don't think time exists in any objective sense and as commonly thought of is an illusion. But subjectively we find it easier to manage linear time - past-present-future. The downside is that you can't do anything about bad memories - they're stashed away in the past and all you can do with them is keep the lights off and the door shut. The good news is that if memories of the past are shit, make some new ones. In fact make more of them than the old ones. I did.

[ProfessorDavey]

I feel sympathy with those Christians who say that it's missing the 'true' meaning of Christmas for them. I must be getting old but I remember with affection when it was a much smaller thing.

Problem is that the 'true meaning of Christmas' is different for each of us. Largely I think it tends to be a sort of nostalgic harking back to some long forgotten childhood feeling, but that is gone as we aren't children anymore, and often many of those who made that time special are gone too.

I think sometimes we strive, as adults, to create the 'perfect Christmas' precisely because we can never have again the real perfect Christmas which was the one we had at the age of 7 (or perhaps even a mash-up of the best bits of the Christmasses we had between the ages of 5 and 10).