Fine detail in the gospels: made up or not?

[Stranger]

The evidence is alienation inclusive of any non acted out nastiness in one's mind.
That things are not going as well as they could be although as far agnostic and atheists that is usually down to other people (Don't forget that all people are included in somebody's other people).

Vlad, the point about evidence is that it distinguishes between rival hypotheses. You can't just choose a bunch of things in the world that are consistent with your idea and then claim them as evidence for said idea unless they are also inconsistent with other ideas.

There is nothing here that is inconsistent with a godless universe or with several different god concepts.

This is a bit like Einstein citing the fact that stuff falls down as evidence for general relativity...

[Owlswing]

Theobabble must be infectious: Alan is already fluent and now you too, Vlad.

This effort of yours is utterly incomprehensible.

Strange you should say that, I was going to ask Vlad for a translation into English as I regret that I do not speak or understand Theobabble.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Theobabble must be infectious: Alan is already fluent and now you too, Vlad.

This effort of yours is utterly incomprehensible.

To the wilfully ignorant perhaps.

[Owlswing]

To the wilfully ignorant perhaps.

Jesus H Christ - hark at the pot calling the kettle black!

[Maeght]

To the wilfully ignorant perhaps.

Read it back to your self carefully and see if it really made your point clearly or not.

[Owlswing]

Read it back to your self carefully and see if it really made your point clearly or not.

Erm ------- not!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad, the point about evidence is that it distinguishes between rival hypotheses. You can't just choose a bunch of things in the world that are consistent with your idea and then claim them as evidence for said idea unless they are also inconsistent with other ideas.

There is nothing here that is inconsistent with a godless universe or with several different god concepts.

This is a bit like Einstein citing the fact that stuff falls down as evidence for general relativity...

Which would all be very well if the issue had been again about God the father but it was about the need for salvation in (and what could meet that need).

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad, the point about evidence is that it distinguishes between rival hypotheses. You can't just choose a bunch of things in the world that are consistent with your idea and then claim them as evidence for said idea unless they are also inconsistent with other ideas.

There is nothing here that is inconsistent with a godless universe or with several different god concepts.

This is a bit like Einstein citing the fact that stuff falls down as evidence for general relativity...

First of all. You either believe there is alienation or you do not.
There is plenty of evidence of alienation at international, national, group, interpersonal and within personalities.

This therefore is what there needs to be salvation from.

Can this be achieved by Law following? hardly since the establishment of laws can have the opposing effect.

Can this be achieved by ''techniques'' maybe a shallow and short term fix is possible but techniques have the draw back that we need to keep using them.

Given then an ability to save from the predicament is not really evident in technique and law following then external assistance seems to be an alternative.

[Stranger]

Which would all be very well if the issue had been again about God the father but it was about the need for salvation in (and what could meet that need).

It applies equally well. You were (if I understood your rather obscure post correctly) referencing the fact that humans/the human condition isn't as 'good' as we are able to imagine.

That isn't evidence that we need saving from something or that being 'saved' is possible. It is just a fact of human existence that is perfectly consistent with no god or many other gods - with the possibility of being 'saved' and with no such possibility.

First of all. You either believe there is alienation or you do not.
There is plenty of evidence of alienation at international, national, group, interpersonal and within personalities.

This therefore is what there needs to be salvation from.

This just doesn't follow. You can't point to something unpleasant in life and just conclude that we need 'salvation' from it. Where is the evidence that it isn't just the natural state of affairs that we have to live with as best we can?

Can this be achieved by Law following? hardly since the establishment of laws can have the opposing effect.

Can this be achieved by ''techniques'' maybe a shallow and short term fix is possible but techniques have the draw back that we need to keep using them.

Given then an ability to save from the predicament is not really evident in technique and law following then external assistance seems to be an alternative.

Where is the evidence that 'external assistance' is actually available?

[Maeght]

What's all this got to do with whether fine detail in the gospels is made up or not?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It applies equally well. You were (if I understood your rather obscure post correctly) referencing the fact that humans/the human condition isn't as 'good' as we are able to imagine.

That isn't evidence that we need saving from something or that being 'saved' is possible. It is just a fact of human existence that is perfectly consistent with no god or many other gods - with the possibility of being 'saved' and with no such possibility.

This just doesn't follow. You can't point to something unpleasant in life and just conclude that we need 'salvation' from it. Where is the evidence that it isn't just the natural state of affairs that we have to live with as best we can?

Where is the evidence that 'external assistance' is actually available?

It applies equally well. You were (if I understood your rather obscure post correctly) referencing the fact that humans/the human condition isn't as 'good' as we are able to imagine.
 

As far as I can see your statement here is either merely restating what I am saying or it is saying good is merely a matter of the imagination and subsequently there is no real problem of alienation.

I've avoided the words Good or bad or unpleasant (which has little to do specifically with Good or Bad) and used the word alienation.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What's all this got to do with whether fine detail in the gospels is made up or not?

We are debating what the fine detail in the Gospels is about.
So those are acts, miracles, preaching, and teaching. and not just miracles.

[Owlswing]

First of all. You either believe there is alienation or you do not.
There is plenty of evidence of alienation at international, national, group, interpersonal and within personalities.

This therefore is what there needs to be salvation from.

Can this be achieved by Law following? hardly since the establishment of laws can have the opposing effect.

Can this be achieved by ''techniques'' maybe a shallow and short term fix is possible but techniques have the draw back that we need to keep using them.

Given then an ability to save from the predicament is not really evident in technique and law following then external assistance seems to be an alternative.

Please translate this into English.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Please translate this into English.

It is in English.

[floo]

We are debating what the fine detail in the Gospels is about.
So those are acts, miracles, preaching, and teaching. and not just miracles.

Logic and Vlad is DOOMED, DOOMED.

[Owlswing]

We are debating what the fine detail in the Gospels is about.
So those are acts, miracles, preaching, and teaching. and not just miracles.

Yes, but if it falls down on any one of those items it falls down on all of them.

There is no proof that any of the miracles actually occurred as there aren't, as far as is known, any written evidence from eye-witnesses.

Added  to this is the general concensus that there is no surviving written evidence of acts, preaching and/or teaching.

Maybe you should try to grasp the concept of Faith not Fact.

[Owlswing]

It is in English.

NO, it is not, it is in Gobbledegook.

[Stranger]

As far as I can see your statement here is either merely restating what I am saying or it is saying good is merely a matter of the imagination and subsequently there is no real problem of alienation.

I've avoided the words Good or bad or unpleasant (which has little to do specifically with Good or Bad) and used the word alienation.

I suggest reading my posts again. I am saying that the mere existence of alienation does not imply that we 'need salvation' from it, still less that any such 'salvation' is available.

The existence of a problem is not evidence that there is a miraculous solution to it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Logic and Vlad is DOOMED, DOOMED.

Cheerleader's arrived.

[Sebastian Toe]

Cheerleader's arrived.

Said the pantomime dame.....

[Aruntraveller]

Said the pantomime dame.....

Oh no she didn't......

[Owlswing]

Oh no she didn't......

ALL TOGETHER BOYS AND GIRLS:

OH YES SHE DID!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Said the pantomime dame.....

A Panto dame requires a couple of huge false tits..............and right on cue you and Owlswing turn up.

[jeremyp]

The evidence is alienation inclusive of any non acted out nastiness in one's mind.

I don't see how that means we all need saving. It's also not evidence that Jesus is the saviour.

What evidence do you have that there is no alienation

Why do I need evidence for a claim that I have not made?

[Owlswing]

A Panto dame requires a couple of huge false tits..............and right on cue you and Owlswing turn up.

I resent the accusation - false - I'll have you know that I am the real McCoy!

But as to the "huge" I would defer to your supremacy is the boob size stakes.