A pagan vindicated?

[Robbie]

He's not changing it ippy, just wants to embrace modern language.  It will still have the same meaning but worded in a way that is easier for people to understand.

I always took the "lead us not into temptation" to mean 'help keep me out of difficult situations where I might get in trouble'  .  Too many words of course.

I've not heard anyone say, "Out Father which art in Heaven..." for donkeys' years. I suppose some still do.

[Anchorman]

One of the interesting bits regarding this 'prayer' - which wasn't meant to be a prayer, but a model for prayer, is that the full version....the one with "and the Kingdom, the power and the Glory are Yours...." first appears, not in the NT as we know it today, but in the Didache, a book contemporary with the later Johanine letters and Revelation.

[ippy]

He's not changing it ippy, just wants to embrace modern language.  It will still have the same meaning but worded in a way that is easier for people to understand.

I always took the "lead us not into temptation" to mean 'help keep me out of difficult situations where I might get in trouble'  .  Too many words of course.

I've not heard anyone say, "Out Father which art in Heaven..." for donkeys' years. I suppose some still do.

Well, whatever he's doing with it, it's rather pointless in in the first place anyway, therefor, 'so what'?

When you add to that, the R C church including the pope is morally bankrupt as well, it'even more of a 'so what'?

Waste of time comes to mind too..

Regards ippy

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Well, whatever he's doing with it, it's rather pointless in in the first place anyway, therefor, 'so what'?

When you add to that, the R C church including the pope is morally bankrupt as well, it'even more of a 'so what'?

Waste of time comes to mind too..

Regards ippy

Estimated number of RC's in the world 1,000,000,000
Estimated number Ippy's in the world 1.000000000

[Nearly Sane]

Estimated number of RC's in the world 1,000,000,000
Estimated number Ippy's in the world 1.000000000

And it's the argumentum ad populum in numbers

[Humph Warden Bennett]

And it's the argumentum ad populum in numbers

I think it fair to say that more people take notice of Frank than take notice of Ippy.

[Nearly Sane]

I think it fair to say that more people take notice of Frank than take notice of Ippy.

  more people take note of David Icke than anyone on this forum AFAIK.

[ippy]

Estimated number of RC's in the world 1,000,000,000
Estimated number Ippy's in the world 1.000000000

It's hardly my fault that their's so many gullible people about H W, anyway how does the amount of people taken in by this nonsense, make this form of nonsense any more credible than any other form of nonsense?

The moral bankruptcy of the Roman Catholic church has removed any of the large volumes of respect that organisation would like to think it still has, it's become laughable when it's leaders make these pronouncements, it's enormous loss of authority is due to its abysmal historical record.

Regards ippy

[Shaker]

I think it fair to say that more people take notice of Frank than take notice of Ippy.

George Carlin (IIRC): "I have exactly as much power and authority as the Pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it."

[Robbie]

The "RC Church" (as some of you call it), has more credibility now than ever before with Francis. It is having a renaissance! (Me saying this as a non-Catholic, hee hee, but I have never had any prejudice or thought the scandals were about the church, only bad members. TBH the scandals have done it good in some ways.).

[Nearly Sane]

The "RC Church" (as some of you call it), has more credibility now than ever before with Francis. It is having a renaissance! (Me saying this as a non-Catholic, hee hee, but I have never had any prejudice or thought the scandals were about the church, only bad members. TBH the scandals have done it good in some ways.).

Nice to know that the sexual assault of children and the subsequent cover up by the church hierarchy have been of some benefit. Those fucked and ignored will presumably be rejoicing.

[Shaker]

Harsh. And right.

[Robbie]

Nice to know that the sexual assault of children and the subsequent cover up by the church hierarchy have been of some benefit. Those fucked and ignored will presumably be rejoicing.

Honestly!
You have to bring everything down to the lowest & most obvious, worse than floo.
What I said had nothing to do with that - & I don't ignore it, nor sexual abuse perpetrated by members of other churches or organisations.
However I don't condemn an entire organisation because of some bad apples.
I'm outta this thread.

[Nearly Sane]

Honestly!
You have to bring everything down to the lowest & most obvious, worse than floo.
What I said had nothing to do with that - & I don't ignore it, nor sexual abuse perpetrated by members of other churches or organisations.
However I don't condemn an entire organisation because of some bad apples.
I'm outta this thread.

Except as pointed out the hierarchy covered it up. If you think that is some sort of good then take as much offence as you like.

And in what way was your comment nothing to do with the sexual assault of children and the subsequent cover up? 

[Owlswing]

The "RC Church" (as some of you call it), has more credibility now than ever before with Francis. It is having a renaissance! (Me saying this as a non-Catholic, hee hee, but I have never had any prejudice or thought the scandals were about the church, only bad members. TBH the scandals have done it good in some ways.).

About bloody time, it has needed it for centuries!

Quite apart from anything else in its attitude to women.

[Owlswing]

Except as pointed out the hierarchy covered it up. If you think that is some sort of good then take as much offence as you like.

And in what way was your comment nothing to do with the sexual assault of children and the subsequent cover up?

Agreed

[ippy]

Honestly!
You have to bring everything down to the lowest & most obvious, worse than floo.
What I said had nothing to do with that - & I don't ignore it, nor sexual abuse perpetrated by members of other churches or organisations.
However I don't condemn an entire organisation because of some bad apples.
I'm outta this thread.

Rob, what exactly is so redeeming about this R C organisation's policy of telling their African members that condoms don't help in the fight to prevent aids spreading? And this is only one of its crimes.

Just as a small aside Rob, why try to protect this religious organisation? The one that has about the longest list of abominable behaviour to it's name it's possible for this type of organisation to have?

Regards ippy

[Owlswing]

Honestly!
You have to bring everything down to the lowest & most obvious, worse than floo.
What I said had nothing to do with that - & I don't ignore it, nor sexual abuse perpetrated by members of other churches or organisations.
However I don't condemn an entire organisation because of some bad apples.
I'm outta this thread.

. . . and you have the gall to yell at me for getting angry!

POT - - - Kettle - - - BLACK!

[ippy]

. . . and you have the gall to yell at me for getting angry!

POT - - - Kettle - - - BLACK!

Rob's got it so wrong and has chickened out Owl.

Regards ippy

[jeremyp]

George Carlin (IIRC): "I have exactly as much power and authority as the Pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it."

The Pope has vastly more power than George Carlin ever did. He is the leader of an organisation that has a billion people in it.

[Shaker]

The Pope has vastly more power than George Carlin ever did. He is the leader of an organisation that has a billion people in it.

Whoosh

[Robbie]

Gosh I'm sorry.  Not in the least angry or offended I assure you, despite rather sharp 'off top of head' response, say what you like to me.

I just don't automatically think of 'sexual abuse cases' when I hear anything about the Catholic church is all & seems some do.  There's more to the church than that and I believe Pope Francis, from what I've read it, is trying hard to rectify past wrongs and modernise the church.

I could be wrong! I'm not a Catholic, have a few longstanding Catholic friends and was involved a few years ago with a couple of clergy in a local charity, but we don't talk about such things, most people don't in their everyday lives.

If I've caused offence it wasn't meant.

Back to 'Lord's Prayer'.

[Owlswing]

Gosh I'm sorry.  Not in the least angry or offended I assure you, despite rather sharp 'off top of head' response, say what you like to me.

I just don't automatically think of 'sexual abuse cases' when I hear anything about the Catholic church is all & seems some do.  There's more to the church than that and I believe Pope Francis, from what I've read it, is trying hard to rectify past wrongs and modernise the church.

I could be wrong! I'm not a Catholic, have a few longstanding Catholic friends and was involved a few years ago with a couple of clergy in a local charity, but we don't talk about such things, most people don't in their everyday lives.

If I've caused offence it wasn't meant.

Back to 'Lord's Prayer'.

Bugger the "Lord's Prayer" - that has just about been talked out in the usual way.

As to the sexual abuse by Catholic priests an old joke goes:

Question: What is the difference between a Catholic priest and acne?

Answer: Acne waits until you are a teenager before it comes on your face.

Be that as it may, in most cases it is not the fact of sexual abuse of children by priests and nuns that causes the greaterr indignation.

It is the way in which the perpetrators are shifted around the globe and hidden in obscure Vatican departments in order to prevent criminal proceedings being taking against them in the countries where the crimes were commited., thus making the Vatican and its officials, up to and including the Pope, complicit in those crimes. 

[ippy]

Gosh I'm sorry.  Not in the least angry or offended I assure you, despite rather sharp 'off top of head' response, say what you like to me.

I just don't automatically think of 'sexual abuse cases' when I hear anything about the Catholic church is all & seems some do.  There's more to the church than that and I believe Pope Francis, from what I've read it, is trying hard to rectify past wrongs and modernise the church.

I could be wrong! I'm not a Catholic, have a few longstanding Catholic friends and was involved a few years ago with a couple of clergy in a local charity, but we don't talk about such things, most people don't in their everyday lives.

If I've caused offence it wasn't meant.

Back to 'Lord's Prayer'.

I didn't think I was on a derail when I mentioned the pope's utterance, with the R C's record where the pope's are responsible, why should anyone take any notice of him, (and it can only be a him), or whatever he says in connection with or about his rotten empire?

They even started with indulgences and how corrupt is that, just for starters?

He needs to be told to go forth and multiply as loudly as is possible and take his rotten empire with him, whatever he says.

Regards ippy

[Owlswing]

I didn't think I was on a derail when I mentioned the pope's utterance, with the R C's record where the pope's are responsible, why should anyone take any notice of him, (and it can only be a him), or whatever he says in connection with or about his rotten empire?

They even started with indulgences and how corrupt is that, just for starters?

He needs to be told to go forth and multiply as loudly as is possible and take his rotten empire with him, whatever he says.

Regards ippy

Why so partisan?

As far as I am concerned it has to be all or nothing as far as the Big-3 are concerned.