A pagan vindicated?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I watched that debate. The Widdicombe/Archbish combination got their arses handed to them. The partisan crowd thing doesn't wash because the vote was taken before and after the debate and had been found to move substantially in the direction of the atheists.

Your complaints are just sour grapes because your side were fucking useless even accounting for the fact that they were defending the indefensible.

Jeremy, as has been mentioned above, I am Orthodox, not RC. I don't think that the RC has been a force for good, although for different reasons. As far as I am concerned, RC v Atheists is like Man U v MK Dons, I want them both to lose.

[Shaker]

Except they didn't 

[floo]

Jeremy, as has been mentioned above, I am Orthodox, not RC. I don't think that the RC has been a force for good, although for different reasons. As far as I am concerned, RC v Atheists is like Man U v MK Dons, I want them both to lose.

What is so good about your particular brand of faith?

[Shaker]

What is so good about your particular brand of faith?

The exact same things that all the others say about their brand, I'd imagine.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

What is so good about your particular brand of faith?

It is the church that Jesus himself founded.

[Shaker]

... just like all the others

[floo]

It is the church that Jesus himself founded.

No he didn't, he was a Jew.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

He was born into the race originally intended to be priests giving advice to others.

(we are getting off topic now!)

[floo]

He was born into the race originally intended to be priests giving advice to others.

(we are getting off topic now!)

It wouldn't be R&E if a thread didn't go off topic!

[ippy]

It is the church that Jesus himself founded.

Got any evidence for that H W?

Regards ippy

[Owlswing]

Best go into that YouTube debate, the speakers are far more articulate than I am and no it's a really in depth dismantling of the whole of R C's rotten empire, It's a good listen too, well I think so, from either side of the fence. 

Regards ippy

This is a brilliant debate and the looks on the faces of the archbishop and Anne Widdicombe when the final votes were announced were worth watching - talk about priceless!

[Owlswing]

I watched that debate. The Widdicombe/Archbish combination got their arses handed to them. The partisan crowd thing doesn't wash because the vote was taken before and after the debate and had been found to move substantially in the direction of the atheists.

Your complaints are just sour grapes because your side were fucking useless even accounting for the fact that they were defending the indefensible.

Agreed - in spades!

The drop in the "For" vote from "Before" to "After" was far greater than I expected and, from the looks on the faces of all four speakers, far greater than they expected either. 

[Owlswing]

It is the church that Jesus himself founded.

OH NO!

An Ad_O clone!

[Shaker]

OH NO!

An Ad_O clone!

Ad_O was saying this when he belonged one of the different Heinz 57 (make that 30,000 or so) varieties of Christianity.

You will be staggered to discover that he's playing the self-same tune now* that he belongs to the (this week) even righter and more truly true than truthfully trueness trueitude one of the different Heinz 57 (make that 30,000 or so) varieties of Christianity.

... aaaaaaaand there's the history of monotheism individually hand gift-wrapped for you.

*Rhetorical flourish: when he's allowed off the naughty step.

[ippy]

This is a brilliant debate and the looks on the faces of the archbishop and Anne Widdicombe when the final votes were announced were worth watching - talk about priceless!

Yes Owl, there was such a buoyant atmosphere at the end of the evening when we were all leaving, one of those few balmy nights no jacket needed, you should have seen the look on the protesters faces, their protest was to walk out, they certainly didn't look very happy, there must have been about forty of them scrambling out en-block.

I wish I had somewhere near Stephen Fry's public speaking ability, good for him being able to strike back at some of the grief he has probably had to deal with in his time. 

They both Stephen and Chris struck a massive blow for reason and managed to put superstitious beliefs into their place.

Regards ippy

[Alan Burns]

Just responding to Robbie's request for RC input on this topic.

I have immense faith in God's ability to guide His church through the appointed authority given through Jesus to Peter and his successors.   And I am very aware that the successors to Peter have occasionally gone astray through what appears to be self centred corruption, but I feel certain that God has brought His church back on the right lines through the power of the Holy Spirit, and I see no reason to doubt the current authority of His church because of past mistakes.  And I also concede that the Orthodox wing of the Christian church has equal claim to the line of authority given through Jesus following the great schism of 1054. 

My own faith was considerably enhanced by joining the Charismatic Renewal movement within the RC church, but in our local parish I get on very well with the more traditional members of our church.  I am sure there are roles for both flavours in the RC church.

The evil forces in this world do seem to delight in encouraging splits within our Christian churches, by making our differences assume far greater importance than our commonalities.  So I do hope and pray we can move forward toward much greater unity than in the past.

[ippy]

Just responding to Robbie's request for RC input on this topic.

I have immense faith in God's ability to guide His church through the appointed authority given through Jesus to Peter and his successors.   And I am very aware that the successors to Peter have occasionally gone astray through what appears to be self centred corruption, but I feel certain that God has brought His church back on the right lines through the power of the Holy Spirit, and I see no reason to doubt the current authority of His church because of past mistakes.  And I also concede that the Orthodox wing of the Christian church has equal claim to the line of authority given through Jesus following the great schism of 1054. 

My own faith was considerably enhanced by joining the Charismatic Renewal movement within the RC church, but in our local parish I get on very well with the more traditional members of our church.  I am sure there are roles for both flavours in the RC church.

The evil forces in this world do seem to delight in encouraging splits within our Christian churches, by making our differences assume far greater importance than our commonalities.  So I do hope and pray we can move forward toward much greater unity than in the past.

Barmy.

Necessarily the very kindest of regards, ippy

[Robbie]

Thank you so much for responding to my request, Alan, your heartfelt post is much appreciated.

You said:- '...I do hope and pray we can move forward toward much greater unity than in the past.'

Yes, I agree we have more in common than what divides.

[ippy]

Thank you so much for responding to my request, Alan, your heartfelt post is much appreciated.

You said:- '...I do hope and pray we can move forward toward much greater unity than in the past.'

Yes, I agree we have more in common than what divides.

I can't say I've got that much in common with Alan as I suspect most, so called, atheists here, I'm non-religious, I have religioso extremists in my own family, just like Alan, fortunately they're in Australia, I've given up with them the emails had become sermons rather than sensible family exchanges plus they knew about the battles we have had with various religious groups because we're non-religious people and they were still managing to keep on updating us with whatever was current with their religion based practices.

I'm afraid this bloke Alan is much of the same extremist ilk as those awful relations of mine where it's impossible to converse with them about the everyday normal occurrences in life without doctor god coming into to the conversation at every opportunity, in spite of my requests to the former asking them to refrain, requests such as you leave the subject alone so will we, doesn't work, we have so little in common with them, just the opposite of your feelings about this subject.

I'm sorry Rob these religosos all seem to come out of the same mold and they will always be seen by myself and I dare say as a bunch of, word not allowed by the forum, I'm sure you'll know the word.

I very much doubt that anything will be altering in this problem area of theirs, it wouldn't be so bad if there some small indicator of any kind that there is any substance worthy of note in any of these superstition based, BELIEFS, it unfortunately for them this remains at  zero to date.

I'm sure there will always be some of the quieter types of believer but the Alan's and the others like him such as my antipodean relatives, their's no way of getting through to them, I' doubt there ever will be any way either, still at least, thank goodness, religious belief is on the decline here in the U K, maybe that'll see a decline in the amount of dogmatic Alans overall in the future.

Kind regards ippy

[floo]

Talking of religious extremists, we had a card and newsletter from one, who is sadly a relative. Their young children, ages 3-9, are so brainwashed it is cruel, the kid's lives are one long round of Bible studies and prayers!

[Shaker]

Religion is like circumcision, to which it's so often tied for the very same reason: leave kids alone and let them make up their own minds as adults and most of them won't be interested.

[floo]

Religion is like circumcision, to which it's so often tied for the very same reason: leave kids alone and let them make up their own minds as adults and most of them won't be interested.

We let our children decide for themselves, they decided Christianity has something to offer them, but thank goodness they are moderates and not Biblical literalists.

[ippy]

Talking of religious extremists, we had a card and newsletter from one, who is sadly a relative. Their young children, ages 3-9, are so brainwashed it is cruel, the kid's lives are one long round of Bible studies and prayers!

Yes Floo that Aussie branch of my family have completely indoctrinated their children into the fold and they're all as bad as A B, it's so sad, it's a nephew of mine, he was such a lovely little'un over here before he went over to Oz.

It makes me want to puke, he's been doing missionary work with his wife in Papua New Guinea, They put a film of themselves on YouTube they reminded me of the 'The Fameous Five', they started to tell me about it one time when they were over here, I had to walk out, it's not as though they don't now how I feel about this nonsense of theirs.

I assume it's you Floo, I'm a one finger typist and your new handle has a lot more letters in it, apart from that it's not that bad, would LR be OK for short?

Kind regards ippy

[floo]

Yes Floo that Aussie branch of my family have completely indoctrinated their children into the fold and they're all as bad as A B, it's so sad, it's a nephew of mine, he was such a lovely little'un over here before he went over to Oz.

It makes me want to puke, he's been doing missionary work with his wife in Papua New Guinea, The put a film of themselves on YouTube they reminded me of the 'The Fameous Five', they started to tell me about it one time when they were over here, I had to walk out, it's not as though they don't now how I feel about this nonsense of theirs.

I assume it's you Floo, I'm a one finger typist and your new handle has a lot more letters in it, apart from that it's not that bad, would LR be OK for short?

Kind regards ippy

I was floo, but got fed up with the moniker, I did explain my change of  name on another thread. Little roses was the nickname given to me by my late father. LR will do for short.

[Maeght]

I was floo, but got fed up with the moniker, I did explain my change of  name on another thread. Little roses was the nickname given to me by my late father. LR will do for short.

To be fair, you said what you were changing to but not what you were changing from