Religions have succeeded

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I have always maintained that religions have been very useful and have succeeded in what they were meant to achieve.

Today we may feel that religions are outdated and divisive. We may feel that they are delusional and encourage superstition.

But all our present day values that we take for granted such as universal brotherhood, humanism, love and altruism, equality,  tolerance, respect for elders, sacrifice....and many more such qualities are predominantly of religious origin and it was religions that taught and enforced such values even during times when tribal and feudal values were most dominant.

When our natural 'animal' instincts dictated our values and behavior it was religions and religious teachers that emphasized love, tolerance, equality, non violence and so on.  They made us evolve a culture that made us more and more different from animals. They made us civilized!

Granted that some people used religion itself to further their basic instinctive behavior of violence, survival and competition.....it is nevertheless true that a majority of people were induced to move away from such behavior only due to religious teachings.  If not for religions we may not have moved from our competitive tendencies as we have.

Here is my article on this subject. Those who are interested may please go through it and offer their comments.   

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/religions-have-suceeded/

Cheers.

Sriram

[jeremyp]

Hi everyone,

I have always maintained that religions have been very useful and have succeeded in what they were meant to achieve.

What are they meant to achieve?

values that we take for granted such as universal brotherhood, humanism, love and altruism, equality,  tolerance, respect for elders, sacrifice....and many more such qualities are predominantly of religious origin and it was religions that taught and enforced such values even during times when tribal and feudal values were most dominant.

Correlation is not equal to causation.

[Sriram]

What are they meant to achieve?

To help us develop into civilized and humane beings.......more spiritually evolved...  They have succeeded.  It has worked.

[Stranger]

Today we may feel that religions are outdated and divisive. We may feel that they are delusional and encourage superstition.

No, religions don't encourage superstition, they are superstitions.

Excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural.

[Enki]

Hi everyone,

I have always maintained that religions have been very useful and have succeeded in what they were meant to achieve.

Today we may feel that religions are outdated and divisive. We may feel that they are delusional and encourage superstition.

But all our present day values that we take for granted such as universal brotherhood, humanism, love and altruism, equality,  tolerance, respect for elders, sacrifice....and many more such qualities are predominantly of religious origin and it was religions that taught and enforced such values even during times when tribal and feudal values were most dominant.

When our natural 'animal' instincts dictated our values and behavior it was religions and religious teachers that emphasized love, tolerance, equality, non violence and so on.  They made us evolve a culture that made us more and more different from animals. They made us civilized!

Granted that some people used religion itself to further their basic instinctive behavior of violence, survival and competition.....it is nevertheless true that a majority of people were induced to move away from such behavior only due to religious teachings.  If not for religions we may not have moved from our competitive tendencies as we have.

Here is my article on this subject. Those who are interested may please go through it and offer their comments.   

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/religions-have-suceeded/

Cheers.

Sriram

It is surely an open question as to what 'religions' were meant to achieve. Also, each religion(as portrayed by their followers) may well have had differing objectives.

However, if I may pick out just one paragraph, your third, I think you will find that, if you can get hold of it, a book called 'The Better Angels of Our nature' by Steven Pinker, puts forward a far more complex, detailed and well researched contrary view to your own. It is well worth reading even if you end up by disagreeing with many of his conclusions.

[Harrowby Hall]

Religions are devices whereby a self-appointed elite uses the device of "secret knowledge" to gain ascendancy - and importantly - power over other people.

During the 20th Century, a number of religions were established, some becoming very successful, based on the esoteric ramblings of one Karl Marx.

[Sriram]

Religions are devices whereby a self-appointed elite uses the device of "secret knowledge" to gain ascendancy - and importantly - power over other people.

During the 20th Century, a number of religions were established, some becoming very successful, based on the esoteric ramblings of one Karl Marx.

Not to mention the 'religion' promoted by a certain Dawkins and his ilk.

[Stranger]

Not to mention the 'religion' promoted by a certain Dawkins and his ilk.

 

[Stranger]

To help us develop into civilized and humane beings.......more spiritually evolved...  They have succeeded.  It has worked.

So, basically you've retrospectively assigned a purpose for religions to be something they have only sporadically supported, and often opposed. Then you've assumed that the increase in those values, that some religions sometimes supported, is due to them sometimes supporting them.

Tenuous doesn't quite cover it.

In fact, religion and other superstitions (and indeed, your argument) are likely to be due to the well documented tendency of humans to see patterns, purpose, and deliberate agency, where there is actually none.

[jeremyp]

To help us develop into civilized and humane beings.......more spiritually evolved...  They have succeeded.  It has worked.

Right....

... So the fact that, for example, in some Islamic countries, they execute people for being gay by throwing them off tall buildings doesn't make you think it hasn't worked?

[floo]

Hi everyone,

I have always maintained that religions have been very useful and have succeeded in what they were meant to achieve.

Today we may feel that religions are outdated and divisive. We may feel that they are delusional and encourage superstition.

But all our present day values that we take for granted such as universal brotherhood, humanism, love and altruism, equality,  tolerance, respect for elders, sacrifice....and many more such qualities are predominantly of religious origin and it was religions that taught and enforced such values even during times when tribal and feudal values were most dominant.

When our natural 'animal' instincts dictated our values and behavior it was religions and religious teachers that emphasized love, tolerance, equality, non violence and so on.  They made us evolve a culture that made us more and more different from animals. They made us civilized!

Granted that some people used religion itself to further their basic instinctive behavior of violence, survival and competition.....it is nevertheless true that a majority of people were induced to move away from such behavior only due to religious teachings.  If not for religions we may not have moved from our competitive tendencies as we have.

Here is my article on this subject. Those who are interested may please go through it and offer their comments.   

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/religions-have-suceeded/

Cheers.

Sriram

Considering all the terrible crimes committed in the name of religion, which far out way any good, I find that post of yours weird!

[Sriram]

I think some of you have just become paranoid over religion.    Get over it, folks!

[Sebastian Toe]

I think some of you have just become paranoid over religion.    Get over it, folks!

..as paranoid as you are with 'the West'?   

[floo]

I think some of you have just become paranoid over religion.    Get over it, folks!

People who have been on the receiving end of abuse caused by religious extremists are unlikely to view it in a favourable way.

[Stranger]

I think some of you have just become paranoid over religion.

What are your reasons for this thought?

[jeremyp]

I think some of you have just become paranoid over religion.    Get over it, folks!

I think, if you were gay in an ISIS controlled area, you'd be pretty paranoid over religion.

I think atheists in Egypt have every right to be a bit paranoid about religion.

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2017/12/24/egypt-lawmaker-moves-to-criminalise-atheism-amid-moral-panic

[Sriram]

I think, if you were gay in an ISIS controlled area, you'd be pretty paranoid over religion.

I think atheists in Egypt have every right to be a bit paranoid about religion.

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2017/12/24/egypt-lawmaker-moves-to-criminalise-atheism-amid-moral-panic

Look at all the others, the majority, who are not like that. That is because of religious teachings.

[jeremyp]

Look at all the others, the majority, who are not like that. That is because of religious teachings.

The peaceful majority is irrelevant.

The minority that make life miserable for people that disagree with their religion are what we are concerned about.

[Sriram]

The peaceful majority is irrelevant.

The minority that make life miserable for people that disagree with their religion are what we are concerned about.

The peaceful majority are irrelevant??!! Really?!

[jeremyp]

The peaceful majority are irrelevant??!! Really?!

Watch the clip and understand it.

[Sriram]

People who are violent and dangerous are only about 10%.  The 90% cannot be irrelevant. It is the 90% that defines what the world is today...regardless of what the 10% does..

My OP is about how religions over the centuries have taught and enforced discipline, self control, sacrifice, charity, non violence, universal brotherhood etc. etc.   That fact does not change.   They have also been a major factor in unifying people.

Even taking just Islam itself as an example....leaving aside the jihadis, extremists, politically motivated persons and others....there is universal brotherhood among 1.5 billion muslims worldwide.....including India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi, Pakistan, Egypt etc. etc.   Millions of people in such diverse and distant places could never have shared a common philosophy or belief or culture without religion.

Likewise with Christianity,Hinduism, Buddhism etc.

Religion has been a great unifying factor and a great disciplining factor. No doubt about that.

The very fact that many people today are mentally developed sufficiently so as not to need religion any more to be disciplined or selfless or altruistic or non bigoted.... is due to religions and their efforts over the centuries.

[ippy]

People who are violent and dangerous are only about 10%.  The 90% cannot be irrelevant. It is the 90% that defines what the world is today...regardless of what the 10% does..

My OP is about how religions over the centuries have taught and enforced discipline, self control, sacrifice, charity, non violence, universal brotherhood etc. etc.   That fact does not change.   They have also been a major factor in unifying people.

Even taking just Islam itself as an example....leaving aside the jihadis, extremists, politically motivated persons and others....there is universal brotherhood among 1.5 billion muslims worldwide.....including India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi, Pakistan, Egypt etc. etc.   Millions of people in such diverse and distant places could never have shared a common philosophy or belief or culture without religion.

Likewise with Christianity,Hinduism, Buddhism etc.

Religion has been a great unifying factor and a great disciplining factor. No doubt about that.

The very fact that many people today are mentally developed sufficiently so as not to need religion any more to be disciplined or selfless or altruistic or non bigoted.... is due to religions and their efforts over the centuries.

'The very fact that many people today are mentally developed sufficiently so as not to need religion any more to be disciplined or selfless or altruistic or non bigoted.... is due to religions and their efforts over the centuries'.

In your opinion Sriram.

Regards ippy