Resurrection impossible?

[Nearly Sane]

That would mean MN has a rather peculiar definition of permanent since we are nowhere near the end of time......What is it's definition in MN by the way?

Time? I doubt it has one.  You are again looking for complexities to MN that are about PN ideas. Do you think that when a doctor signs a death certificate they are stating that there is no possibility that someone might ever resurrect?

[Nearly Sane]

Permanence is an undemonstrable extrapolation.

if Death is not the cessation of life then what IS the cessation of life?

Anything in this PN sense you use it is undemonstrable. And your second sentence is your getting confused between MN and PN again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Time? I doubt it has one.  You are again looking for complexities to MN that are about PN ideas. Do you think that when a doctor signs a death certificate they are stating that there is no possibility that someone might ever resurrect?

I am not after the definition of time but the NM definition of permanence since you think it is part of the NM definition of death.

[Nearly Sane]

I am not after the definition of time but the NM definition of permanence since you think it is part of the NM definition of death.

That life won't return. It matters naught whether it's permanence or time is what you are talking about, and I am not sure that that can be seen as separate, it's again that MN isn't about PN claims.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That life won't return. It matters naught whether it's permanence or time

Well it does if you are saying the MN definition of death is permanent cessation of life.

If that is death then? What is the mere cessation of life or even the non permanent cessation of life?

Do you see the problems here? Permanence cannot be demonstrated and therefore cannot be part of a NM definition and the argument that the cessation of life is permanent is circular.

[Nearly Sane]

Well it does if you are saying the MN definition of death is permanent cessation of life.

If that is death then? What is the mere cessation of life or even the non permanent cessation of life?

Do you see the problems here? Permanence cannot be demonstrated and therefore cannot be part of a NM definition and the argument that the cessation of life is permanent is circular.

And again, off you go down a PN view. MN works with good enough not absolutes. And unless you think that all doctors who have signed death certificates and then the bodies have been burnt are potential murderers , then neither do you. Is it reasonable to expect the sun to come up tomorrow under MN - Yes. Is it an absolute claim - No. Again you get confused about what the problem of induction is.

[Gordon]

Death as permanent cessation of life cannot be a precise scientific definition and certainly no basis for ever issuing conformations or certificates of death when they usually are issued.

Why not pop along and see your local undertaker: they have lots of practical experience and might be able to reassure you.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why not pop along and see your local undertaker: they have lots of practical experience and might be able to reassure you.

LOL

[floo]

Why not pop along and see your local undertaker: they have lots of practical experience and might be able to reassure you.

Talking of undertakers, a school friend and I used to pass an undertakers on our way back from our secondary school lunch break. The workshop door was usually open and the coffins on display. We used to dare each other to run in and touch the coffins. On one occasion when doing so, I discovered a body of a man lying in an open coffin. It would have served me right if he had sat up and said, 'BOO'!   

[ippy]

My sister worked at a local undertakers as a secretary some years, she terminated her job there after working herself to death for them, I think we've now heard all of the possible manifold deadly puns connected with the undertaking industry, it's the sheer amount of them that have now all of them been worked to death.

I can't remember all of them but can remember the mirth when my sis came up with so many of them, and the amused wonderment of how many more before they run out of them, oh yes there were so many she had to be so careful when writing to any of the bereaved clients. 

Regards ippy 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

[Gordon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

Perhaps all resurrection from death claims, just like this one, are administrative errors.

[Maeght]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

Is this chap the Son of God then?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Perhaps all resurrection from death claims, just like this one, are administrative errors.

How would we know?
This chap is apparently still dead.

[Gordon]

How would we know?
This chap is apparently still dead.

It seems he speaks, he looks alive in the pics and presumably (and this is the giveaway) he has a pulse.

Never come across a corpse with those attributes.

[floo]

It seems he speaks, he looks alive in the pics and presumably (and this is the giveaway) he has a pulse.

Never come across a corpse with those attributes.

I wonder if Jesus had them too?

[Maeght]

I'm not sure you've thought this through PF. Putting up cases where ordinary people were considered to have died but then were found not to be. What do you think this suggests about the story of Jesus's resurrection?

[floo]

I'm not sure you've thought this through PF. Putting up cases where ordinary people were considered to have died but then were found not to be. What do you think this suggests about the story of Jesus's resurrection?

Either he wasn't dead, or the story was concocted by the gospel writers.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm not sure you've thought this through PF. Putting up cases where ordinary people were considered to have died but then were found not to be. What do you think this suggests about the story of Jesus's resurrection?

I don't think we are judged on whether we think this is possible or not but on whether deep down we really want Jesus to have died and be safely dead at that.

Secondly could God not possibly arrange a resurrection?

Thirdly, the problem of induction never allows us to say never.

[Maeght]

Either he wasn't dead, or the story was concocted by the gospel writers.

Or he was brought back to life by God. You cannot rule that out, only give your opinion.

[Maeght]

I don't think we are judged on whether we think this is possible or not but on whether deep down we really want Jesus to have died and be safely dead at that.

A different point.

Secondly could God not possibly arrange a resurrection?

Yes, but again a different point.

Thirdly, the problem of induction never allows us to say never.

Not saying never, and again a different point.

[floo]

Or he was brought back to life by God. You cannot rule that out, only give your opinion.

A very unlikely scenario.

[Maeght]

A very unlikely scenario.

You cannot rule it out. Miracles are unlikey, that's why they are miracles. We've discussed this quite recently.

[floo]

You cannot rule it out. Miracles are unlikey, that's why they are miracles. We've discussed this quite recently.

A miracle is only another name for something which is yet unexplained, it doesn't mean it has a supernatural cause.

[Maeght]

A miracle is only another name for something which is yet unexplained, it doesn't mean it has a supernatural cause.

Nope. From the Oxford English Dictionary

noun

    1An extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency.
    ‘the miracle of rising from the grave’

    1.1 A remarkable event or development that brings very welcome consequences.
    ‘it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed’
    ‘industries at the heart of the economic miracle’

1.2 An exceptional product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
‘a machine which was a miracle of design’
as modifier ‘a miracle drug’