Woody Allen

[Rhiannon]

Is Alec Baldwin right?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/16/alec-baldwin-criticizes-stars-renouncing-woody-allen-unfair-and-sad

Or is Mira Sorvino?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/11/mira-sorvino-woody-allen-dylan-farrow

Dylan Farrow's piece is a tough read.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-farrow-woody-allen-me-too-20171207-story.html

[Rhiannon]

Ok, in the light of Dylan Farrow's piece, how should we view Allen's work?

[Aruntraveller]

View it as the inane meanderings of a deeply sad man that it has always been?

I've never understood the "appeal" of his films.

A view of his work doesn't have to be predicated on his alleged behaviour, allegations I tend to believe btw.

[Rhiannon]

I’ve not really engaged with his work so I can’t comment. But it is troubling how easily the allegation of ‘brainwashing’ by a jealous ex has stuck. And how little weight is given to the evidence of a child even now.

It’s strange that so many people will criticise Weinstein but not Allen.

[jeremyp]

I’ve not really engaged with his work so I can’t comment. But it is troubling how easily the allegation of ‘brainwashing’ by a jealous ex has stuck. And how little weight is given to the evidence of a child even now.

It’s strange that so many people will criticise Weinstein but not Allen.

Wasn't the Woody Allen case tested in court?

[Robbie]

I've never quite come to terms with him going off with a seventeen year old daughter of Mia Farrow, with whom he lived - and everyone carrying on as though it was OK!

I never cared that much for his work but, if I had liked it, I suppose I might still like it up to a point, separating the man's work from his nastiness. Or maybe not, honestly don't know.

Dylan Farrow's article is heartbreaking.

[Rhiannon]

Wasn't the Woody Allen case tested in court?

No.

http://people.com/crime/woody-allen-wasnt-prosecuted-after-abuse-allegations-by-daughter-heres-why/

[jeremyp]

A different take:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast

Woody Allen was never charged because the police couldn't put a case together. I think that leaves open the possibility that he didn't do it.

[floo]

A different take:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast

Woody Allen was never charged because the police couldn't put a case together. I think that leaves open the possibility that he didn't do it.

Hmmmmmm! That evil toe rag,  Saville, was never charged either, unfortunately!

[Harrowby Hall]

Hmm, Jeremyp, never let the truth - wherever it lies - get in the way of a good story.

If the Weide account is accurate then it would seem that the "world" is more disposed to believing the account of an attractive woman than that of a ... well ... not particularly attractive man.

Truth is beauty and beauty truth!

[Rhiannon]

You are aware that Allen was denied access to his children by the family courts? Contrary to popular belief the vast majority of parents who are accused of abuse are given accesss it even custody; in the USA this is due largely to the discredited theory of Parental Alienation Syndrome, developed by a paedophile apologist. Although the syndrome itself can not be used in courts here ‘parental alienation’ is now hugely popular with CafCass in the UK family courts, who now start from the POV that women who claim that they and their children have been abused to so because the divorce is ‘high confkict’.

Why is it easier to believe that Mia Farrow, consumed by jealousy, groomed and coerced her daughter to lie to the point where it is still happening now, rather than the idea that Dylan Farrow is simply telling the truth? What happened to believing victims?

To sneer at this as a ‘good story’ is disgusting beyond belief. I cannot even begin to say how repulsive I find that or how angry it makes me.

[Harrowby Hall]

To sneer at this as a ‘good story’ is disgusting beyond belief. I cannot even begin to say how repulsive I find that or how angry it makes me.

I am not sneering. Why don't you read what I write instead of emoting about what you perceive to be my considerations?

I am merely saying that we do not know the truth. The Weide article - if nothing else - shows that public perceptions of the relationships involved in this sorry tale are confused and, in cases, incorrectly simplistic.

Mia Farrow's account may be true, But if it is not then why has it generally been accepted as true?

[Rhiannon]

I am not sneering. Why don't you read what I write instead of emoting about what you perceive to be my considerations?

I am merely saying that we do not know the truth. The Weide article - if nothing else - shows that public perceptions of the relationships involved in this sorry tale are confused and, in cases, incorrectly simplistic.

Mia Farrow's account may be true, But if it is not then why has it generally been accepted as true?

Don’t patronise me.

It’s not Mia Farrow’s account. It’s her child’s.

This is the latest word from the state prosecutor in Connecticut at the time.

‘We reached out to the former Connecticut prosecutor, Frank Maco. He told us that in his experience, "There was no manipulation by Mia Farrow." He adds nothing in the state police investigation indicated that Farrow was in any way being controlled or manipulated.’ On the CBS website.

Women who claim that their children are abused are rarely believed - so easy to claim jealousy and madness - even CafCass in this country start from that position. And the things that women do to try and protect their children - seeking therapy, recording incidents and comments - are seen as further evidence of coercion and parental alienation. You know one of the biggest thing used to discredit Mia Farrow? That she’s very close to her daughter. Like being close to a parent is abnormal.

Parental alienation undoubtedly exists; it’s the narcissistic/antisocial abusers who specialise in it, not their victims.

[Robbie]

I did know that Allen had been denied access to his children, was also undergoing some sort of therapy at one time because of his behaviour with them.

When I first read the accusation that Mia Farrow 'forced' her daughter to lie because she was consumed with jealousy, it just didn't add up.  Why would someone who had previously been married twice and was an experienced mother as well as being a successful person in her own right, stoop to such things. Also her daughter, Dylan, would not be still keeping up the 'lie' to this day.  Dylan is an articulate young woman.

Woody Allen went off with his stepdaughter SoonYi Preven, when she was about 17 and he was in his late fifties I think. 

Of course we don't know for sure, nobody does except those who were present, but there is certainly grave cause for concern regarding him.

I honestly don't know why he seems to be spared the bulk of criticism, unlike Spacey and Weinstein.  I really do not understand it.

[Rhiannon]

Oh come on, Robbie, Allen has been praised for 'waiting' until Soo Yi was of age before beginning a relationship with her (she was 19 when the relationship was discovered).

[floo]

Colin Firth is refusing to work with Allen again because of the allegations.

[Harrowby Hall]

Woody Allen went off with his stepdaughter SoonYi Preven, when she was about 17 and he was in his late fifties I think. 

Except that - as stated by Weide and confirmed by Wikipedia - Soon Yi Previn  has never been his step-daughter. Allen and Farrow were never married. I have put this in italics because it is evidence of the misconceptions and misinformation surrounding this saga. Woody Allen married his girl friend's daughter (who identifies Andre Previn as her father) and is still married to her. According to Wikipedia, a month-long investigation by the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic of Yale-New Haven Hospital concluded there had been no sexual abuse.

I hold no brief for Woody Allen. I cannot recall seeing any of his films and do not have any opinions about any of them. However, it does seem to me that we do not have an accurate picture of this whole business. On the surface it does look as though there is something unpleasant at its heart, but, as Jeremyp points out, "the police couldn't put a case together". I don't know. I am just not jumping to judgement.

I cannot see that in the current Hollywood climate (as evidenced by Weinstein, Stacey et al - and Stacey is as much a Hollywood hero as is Allen) Allen would not be treated as bad news.

I am not prepared to jump to judgement. I just don't know.

[Rhiannon]

Except that - as stated by Weide and confirmed by Wikipedia - Soon Yi Previn  has never been his step-daughter. Allen and Farrow were never married. I have put this in italics because it is evidence of the misconceptions and misinformation surrounding this saga. Woody Allen married his girl friend's daughter (who identifies Andre Previn as her father) and is still married to her. According to Wikipedia, a month-long investigation by the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic of Yale-New Haven Hospital concluded there had been no sexual abuse.

I hold no brief for Woody Allen. I cannot recall seeing any of his films and do not have any opinions about any of them. However, it does seem to me that we do not have an accurate picture of this whole business. On the surface it does look as though there is something unpleasant at its heart, but, as Jeremyp points out, "the police couldn't put a case together". I don't know. I am just not jumping to judgement.

I cannot see that in the current Hollywood climate (as evidenced by Weinstein, Stacey et al - and Stacey is as much a Hollywood hero as is Allen) Allen would not be treated as bad news.

I am not prepared to jump to judgement. I just don't know.

According to the Connecticut State prosecutor there was a case that could go to court and the only reason that eh didn't take it that far was because both he and Mia Farrow felt that it was too traumatic for Dylan Farrow to endure it. The case papers I've read emphasise Dylan's traumatic feelings around her adopted father having an affair with and then marrying her older sister.

The judge in the family court found that Dylan and her siblings needed to be protected from Allen. Note, Allen filed for custody after the allegations around Dylan were made, not before.

I find this persuasive.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/my-father-woody-allen-danger-892572

[wigginhall]

It does become very confusing, and there are so many myths around these people, e.g. the stepdaughter myth, that I end up not knowing.   

[Rhiannon]

It does become very confusing, and there are so many myths around these people, e.g. the stepdaughter myth, that I end up not knowing.

She was his partner's daughter. The sibling of his own children.

Does a marriage certificate make that much of a difference?

[Rhiannon]

Family court judgement of Allen here.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/danny-shea/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866.html

[wigginhall]

She was his partner's daughter. The sibling of his own children.

Does a marriage certificate make that much of a difference?

Well, it bothers me that people (such as Robbie) perpetuate these myths.   Andre Previn was her stepfather, surely.   Well, you could say that these are minor details, but it's the details that convince, or not. 

[Rhiannon]

Well, it bothers me that people (such as Robbie) perpetuate these myths.   Andre Previn was her stepfather, surely.   Well, you could say that these are minor details, but it's the details that convince, or not.

If you mean Soon-Yi, Previn was her adopted father.

FWIW I don’t see Allen’s relationship with her as ‘proof’ of anything other than his monumental self-absorption.

[Robbie]

Oh come on, Robbie, Allen has been praised for 'waiting' until Soo Yi was of age before beginning a relationship with her (she was 19 when the relationship was discovered).

Oh right, not heard that; well good for him for waiting - I suppose. It strikes me as odd as he was living with her and her mother in a family setting, a father figure if not, strictly speaking, her father. It's confusing, pushing the boundaries, but that's just my opinion.

Well, it bothers me that people (such as Robbie) perpetuate these myths.   Andre Previn was her stepfather, surely.   Well, you could say that these are minor details, but it's the details that convince, or not. 

That's so horrible, I'm no scandalmonger, never perpetuated any myths, nor even discussed Woody Allen except on here! Doubt I ever will, it's not the sort of thing that comes up in conversation.

The only thing I remember was Allen leaving Mia Farrow with her daughter, Soon yi, whom he eventually married. I don't take pleasure in things like that, would love to believe that everything is innocent and a complete misunderstanding. Because of this thread I've delved a bit & find it all deeply disturbing. I don't want to know any more until or if it is all resolved, there's nothing I can do.

Andre Previn was Soon yi's father, he adopted her. Legally adopted children are not stepchildren.
Woody Allen was unofficially a stepfather being as he and Mia Farrow were not married  (I didn't even know that until this came up, assumed they were married), & if they lived together with her with their own children as a family, it's a bizarre situation even without a marriage certificate. Or so it seems to me. I've known people who have lived together as a family with children from both, the idea of one of them going off with a child of the other wouldn't occur to them because they are family.

Enough from me I think.

[Rhiannon]

Robbie, my ‘oh come on’ was me being sarcastic, not against you, but against those who feel there is something ‘admirable’ about Allen’s restraint.

For me the whole marriage/stepfather thing’s a red herring anyway. He married his daughter’s sister. So what if they are both adopted?