Nonsense merchants appointed

[Nearly Sane]

At last!

You say that as if anyone has denied that it's about both. The creationism is an illustration of a problem created by the religious being privileged.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You say that as if anyone has denied that it's about both. The creationism is an illustration of a problem created by the religious being privileged.

That may be valid if no other groups were not equally privileged but complete humbug if not.
The mention of creationism merely muddies the waters in this debate and the attempted linking with creationism with religion is mere Shitspreading, You are conflating and possibly suggesting a slippery slope fallacy.
Non believers caught brown handed I'm afraid ....and you've been caught with conflatus

[Gordon]

That may be valid if no other groups were not equally privileged but complete humbug if not.
The mention of creationism merely muddies the waters in this debate and the attempted linking with creationism with religion is mere shitspreading.

Non believers caught brown handed I'm afraid ....and you've been caught with conflatus

I'd have thought I made my position on religious involvement in education clear yonks ago: that religious observance has no place in state education. Thankfully it was relatively easy to ensure my kids, and now grandkids, weren't/aren't exposed to religious proselytising or participated in religious observances when they are at school.

You can't be too careful though: some these evangelist types are persistent.

[Nearly Sane]

That may be valid if no other groups were not equally privileged but complete humbug if not.
The mention of creationism merely muddies the waters in this debate and the attempted linking with creationism with religion is mere shitspreading.

Non believers caught brown handed I'm afraid ....and you've been caught with conflatus

Ah so creationism is not linked with religion in your world. What colour is the sky there?


And again who are these other privileged groups? Your earlier attempts didn't have any as they were on the committee for their expertise in education, the subject of the committee.

[Sebastian Toe]

linking with creationism with religion

Is it linked with anything other than religion? 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'd have thought I made my position on religious involvement in education clear yonks ago: that religious observance has no place in state education. Thankfully it was relatively easy to ensure my kids, and now grandkids, weren't/aren't exposed to religious proselytising or participated in religious observances when they are at school.

You can't be too careful though: some these evangelist types are persistent.

As long as you were never in a position to dictate to other people that is fine by me.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ah so creationism is not linked with religion.

Not in the conflationary way Greer, Macrae and their apologists are arguing here no.

[Gordon]

As long as you were never in a position to dictate to other people that is fine by me.

I don't.

In my view religion is a personal and/or family matter and I fully respect that other people are religious and that they think being involved in religion is beneficial for their children: I recognise that, for them, religion is part of how they support, care for and love for their children, and I have no problem with that at all.

[Nearly Sane]

Not in the conflationary way Greer, Macrae and their apologists are arguing here no.

What way would that be? He's one of the religious reps and he is a creationist. Surely that's relevant?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What way would that be? He's one of the religious reps and he is a creationist. Surely that's relevant?

Religion equals creationism equals privilege.

Is being a creationist relevant? How?

[Nearly Sane]

Religion equals creationism equals privilege.

Is being a creationist relevant? How?

No, no one has said that. The privilege comes with the reps for religion. This particular rep happens to be a creationist which is a problem on an education committee. This is used to highlight the issue of the privilege but no one has suggested that all religious people are creationists.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, no one has said that. The privilege comes with the reps for religion. This particular rep happens to be a creationist which is a problem on an education committee. This is used to highlight the issue of the privilege but no one has suggested that all religious people are creationists.

What is the problem with the rep being a creationist. Answers on a postcard, no anti religious bigotry, conflation or slippery slopes thank you.
Also How is non creationist religious representation affected by this. Answers on a postcard stating how religious privilege is different from any other type of privilege. No Slippery slope arguments. Ha ha.

[Nearly Sane]

What is the problem with the rep being a creationist. Answers on a postcard, no anti religious bigotry, conflation or slippery slopes thank you.
Also How is non creationist religious representation affected by this. Answers on a postcard stating how religious privilege is different from any other type of privilege. No Slippery slope arguments. Ha ha.

Creationism is unscientific bollocks.  habpving him on a committee for education is a piece of nonsense. The issue with the religious reo s is not to do with creationism but rather it's the privilege.


If there were any other groups such as people who have ginger hair, or who like Russ Abbot who got reps I would oppose that too. Do you know of any?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Creationism is unscientific bollocks.  habpving him on a committee for education is a piece of nonsense. The issue with the religious reo s is not to do with creationism but rather it's the privilege.


If there were any other groups such as people who have ginger hair, or who like Russ Abbot who got reps I would oppose that too. Do you know of any?

So no real answer here then.

[Nearly Sane]

So no real answer here then.

No, I gave you an answer. If you disagree with it explain why.


I note that you didn't answer my question.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, I gave you an answer. If you disagree with it explain why.


I note that you didn't answer my question.

1:"its bollocks?
2:" it's nonsense"?

Not much to go on is it?
Also are the 30 secular appointment EE's to the committee non creationist?Know what I'm saying?

[Nearly Sane]

1:"its bollocks?
2:" it's nonsense"?

Not much to go on is it?
Also are the 30 secular appointment EE's to the committee non creationist?Know what I'm saying?

I see you didn't answer the question again. Note I don't want do creationism taught in schools and as Gordon has already pointed out there was a significant issue about that already in Scotland.


And no, I don't really know what you are saying. I wouldn't want a YEcreationist on the committee but this isn't about banning views despite ypu r attempts to portray it, it's about restricting the privilege.

[Gordon]

1:"its bollocks?
2:" it's nonsense"?

Not much to go on is it?
Also are the 30 secular appointment EE's to the committee non creationist?Know what I'm saying?

I've no idea what you are saying, and I suspect you don't either.

The point is that it seems the other 30 members are elected, and as such their religious beliefs are irrelevant to their place on this committee and being a member of the council: but these other three are there simply because they represent religious views and these three are unelected.

Can you see the problem yet?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I've no idea what you are saying, and I suspect you don't either.

The point is that it seems the other 30 members are elected, and as such their religious beliefs are irrelevant to their place on this committee and being a member of the council: but these other three are there simply because they represent religious views and these three are unelected.

Can you see the problem yet?

A fair bit of special pleading Gordon after all a creationist is a creationist is a creationist.
Are the other 30 members on this committee elected councillors? I'm not sure.
That certainly would be something to look into. However the situation you describes sounds more like an antitheists wet dream.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

For information concerning religious involvement on education committees Scotland.

https://www.parliament.scot/S4_PublicPetitionsCommittee/General%20Documents/PE1498_B_Scottish_Episcopal_Church_24.01.14.pdf

[Gordon]

For information concerning religious involvement on education committees Scotland.

https://www.parliament.scot/S4_PublicPetitionsCommittee/General%20Documents/PE1498_B_Scottish_Episcopal_Church_24.01.14.pdf

I posted a link to this petition earlier, and this is one of the responses. It includes this:

We live and work in an increasingly secular society but this must not mean that we
lose sight of the fact that at heart we remain a Christian society and should be proud
of our history and heritage in education. At the very least we should remain a society
that honours the importance of the very Scottish and very spiritual values of wisdom,
compassion, integrity and justice.

The claim that Scotland is 'at heart' a Christian society is no longer the case, as more recent surveys indicate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40467084

Neither is it the case that the values of 'wisdom, compassion, integrity and justice.' are the exclusive province of the religious or spiritual (whatever that means).

What this is about is the Piskies wanting to retain the privileged position of organised religion within local council education committees.

[SteveH]

It's the outrageous system of giving churches guaranteed, unelected seats on the councils that's at fault.