What should the prime minister do in the next 24 hours?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ken Clarke is about the only Tory left in Parliament whom I might actually vote for. My concern about Corbyn is not so much the man himself,(although I am no fan of seventies beardism) but the Militant Tendency mob behind "Momentum". No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.

I think it will be Momentum versus Moggmentum.
There is an awfully bad track record at forcing Jeremy Corbyn out.......and indeed any labour leader. The tories dispatch leaders though with alacrity,

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I think it will be Momentum versus Moggmentum.
There is an awfully bad track record at forcing Jeremy Corbyn out.......and indeed any labour leader. The tories dispatch leaders though with alacrity,

I can only hope that Mom v Mogg would result in a Lib Dem revival, but so far that does not seem to be happening

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Ken Clarke is about the only Tory left in Parliament whom I might actually vote for. My concern about Corbyn is not so much the man himself,(although I am no fan of seventies beardism) but the Militant Tendency mob behind "Momentum". No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.

Readers may find this interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/claire-kober-quits-labour-left-jeremy-corbyn-victory-haringey-council-leader-latest-a8185101.html

[jeremyp]

No I am not suggesting that Jezza is a supporter of Militant/RSL, my worry is that the Trots will take over the party change the rules, and then force Corbyn out in favour of one of their own.

Corbyn is unassailable at the moment. I think a leadership challenge from the left would suffer the same fate as the leadership challenge from the right suffered. I think the danger of him winning is that his government would descend into chaos because he is utterly useless. Of course governments in chaos seems to be par for the course these days.

[Nearly Sane]

Corbyn is unassailable at the moment. I think a leadership challenge from the left would suffer the same fate as the leadership challenge from the right suffered. I think the danger of him winning is that his government would descend into chaos because he is utterly useless. Of course governments in chaos seems to be par for the course these days.

Yep, I'm not seeing how a left challenge would work. Those further to the left than Corbyn in the Labour Party are a small minority. In terms of the PLP, those further to the left wouldn't have the numbers to nominate a challenger.

I disagree that he is utterly useless he did win two leadership victories, have a large increase in membership, and do reasonably well in historic terms from the election base in 2015. That said, I think he's very limited and given the utter utter shambles of the current govt, that he is neck and neck in the polls is a huge failing.

[wigginhall]

I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable.   Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.

I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit.  In the old saying, who?  The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).   

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable.   Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.

I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit.  In the old saying, who?  The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).

Be fair, Starmer seemed to be a better DPP than does the current incumbent.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apparently if Mrs May stops being PM she could go to the Lords as Baroness Dungurning.

[wigginhall]

I looked up the odds on next Labour leader, expecting Starmer to be frontrunner; in fact, it's Thornberry.   I forgot about her, which is odd, as I like her.   She operates in left field, ha ha ha.

It is amusing that the right wing, which predicted Corbyn to get hammered in the election, are now saying that Labour would have won with a different leader, and would be miles ahead in the polls with a different leader.    I think Yvette Cooper has slipped down the table, so I don't know who their heir apparent is. 

[jeremyp]

I disagree that he is utterly useless he did win two leadership victories, have a large increase in membership, and do reasonably well in historic terms from the election base in 2015. That said, I think he's very limited and given the utter utter shambles of the current govt, that he is neck and neck in the polls is a huge failing.

Winning the leadership election is a different proposition to running the party - and the government. Why did he even have to fight a challenge to his leadership? Because he failed to lead the PLP effectively.

Given the state of the Tory Party following the referendum, Labour should have been close enough in the polls to stop Theresa May from even calling a general election. Labour should have been in a position to win any general election called in 2017. Even now, as you say, they are only neck and neck in the polls. As the leader, Corbyn must shoulder the responsibility.

[jeremyp]

It is amusing that the right wing, which predicted Corbyn to get hammered in the election, are now saying that Labour would have won with a different leader, and would be miles ahead in the polls with a different leader.    I think Yvette Cooper has slipped down the table, so I don't know who their heir apparent is.

I think it is absolutely true. If they had a leader of the calibre of say John Smith or Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock, they'd be streets ahead.

[wigginhall]

I think it is absolutely true. If they had a leader of the calibre of say John Smith or Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock, they'd be streets ahead.

I might as well say that if the Tories were led by Churchill, they would be doing better.   Who are the right wing hopefuls in present day Labour, never mind the corpses?   Well, Yvette Cooper used to be it, but I don't know who else.  Chuka Umunna, I suppose - would they be streets ahead with him?  Would the Labour vote have increased by 10%?  I think a lot of activists would walk away. 

[jeremyp]

I might as well say that if the Tories were led by Churchill, they would be doing better.

Very possibly. The fact that Labour lacks proper leadership is not related in any way to the fact that the Tories are in similar straits.

Who are the right wing hopefuls in present day Labour, never mind the corpses?

There are none. They were purged along with New Labour. That doesn't alter the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is crap.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Winning the leadership election is a different proposition to running the party - and the government. Why did he even have to fight a challenge to his leadership? Because he failed to lead the PLP effectively.

Given the state of the Tory Party following the referendum, Labour should have been close enough in the polls to stop Theresa May from even calling a general election. Labour should have been in a position to win any general election called in 2017. Even now, as you say, they are only neck and neck in the polls. As the leader, Corbyn must shoulder the responsibility.

Yes the polls. Is May as high as she is because part of her poll is a cruel lie, like those which said Miliband was neck and Neck with Cameron? Talking of which May' odd mandibular articulations far outnumber Miliband's unfortunate encounter with a bacon sandwich.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Very possibly. The fact that Labour lacks proper leadership is not related in any way to the fact that the Tories are in similar straits.

There are none. They were purged along with New Labour. That doesn't alter the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is crap.

I'm not sure they were purged, didn't they all resign in a bid to topple Corbyn? A detail exploited by Lidington who cruelly reminded Thornbury at PMQ.

[Harrowby Hall]

The primary qualification of any candidate for leadership of the Conservative Party for the last twenty years or so was that his or her name was not Kenneth Clarke.
Hague, Howard, Duncan Smith and Cameron all possessed this qualification and I suspect that much of the state of the party currently is the consequence of the conspiracies of right-wing paleolithic throwbacks to prevent Clarke's accession.

It is interesting to note that even as he approaches his eightieth year, Ken Clarke still has more life in him than many of the brain-dead nonentities sitting on the Government back benches.

[jakswan]

I should think that Corbyn is playing a waiting game, in the expectation that the Tories will implode into civil war, becoming unelectable.   Hence, the ambiguity on Brexit.

I would think Corbyn is faced with begging centrists desperate for Labour to be clear on Brexit (i.e. to stay in), the majority of Labour voters want to stay in yet Corbyn's ' ambiguity on Brexit' is because of what?

I'd suggest because he actually wants Brexit.

The Tories are in the worst state I can ever remember, but across the political spectrum from the DUP to Nick Clegg most are terrified of what a hard left Govt would do to the country.

Whenever I've tried to engage with Corbyn supporters and raise points they only seem to be able to counter with 'yeah but the Tories suck'.

I have no idea if a different leader would do better, presumably this would mean someone more right-wing and/or anti-Brexit.  In the old saying, who?  The obvious candidate is Starmer, who is full of charisma (sarcasm).

I have no idea either, Corbyn enjoys support from the hard left, the populist vote and reluctant centre left. I think a  centre left candidate would lose a lot.

[Rhiannon]

IME Corbynists counter any argument with 'Yes, but Tony Blair'.

[wigginhall]

The ones I know tend to ask, who else?  As I said, Starmer is presumably first choice as a competent administrator, if Corbyn falls under a bus, and I suppose the left would favour Thornberry.    I haven't heard anybody actually say that they would have raised the Labour vote by 10%, although there are plenty saying that Labour would be ahead now with somebody else.  Yes, but who?  I suppose it's Chuka Umunna then.  Zzzz.

[Aruntraveller]

I'd suggest because he actually wants Brexit

This is a possibility. There is a Brexit train of thought within the left that the EU is some kind of capitalist bulwark against the left generally. Not a view I share but it is definitely out there.

Indeed I suspect one or two posters on here think that too.

[wigginhall]

Some Labour people seem to think that if they explicitly come out as anti-Brexit, they will lose votes, presumably Labour leave voters.   I don't know if that is backed up by analysis.   But I suppose the leadership think that in the recent election they garnered both Brexit voters (because Labour were saying they would accept the referendum), and also Remain voters (because they figured that May was going for hard Brexit).   This is what I meant by ambiguity.   I don't know where this goes now, as Starmer seems to be making noises about the single market, and there is generally an anti-hard Brexit atmosphere in Labour circles, except for the weirdos.   I see Corbyn as plugging anti-austerity, which probably works quite well.  Plus, of course, the Napoleonic line, why interrupt your enemy when they're making a bollocks of things.

[Rhiannon]

This is a possibility. There is a Brexit train of thought within the left that the EU is some kind of capitalist bulwark against the left generally. Not a view I share but it is definitely out there.

Indeed I suspect one or two posters on here think that too.

Yep.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The ones I know tend to ask, who else?  As I said, Starmer is presumably first choice as a competent administrator, if Corbyn falls under a bus, and I suppose the left would favour Thornberry.    I haven't heard anybody actually say that they would have raised the Labour vote by 10%, although there are plenty saying that Labour would be ahead now with somebody else.  Yes, but who?  I suppose it's Chuka Umunna then.  Zzzz.

Thornberry....far more charismatic. Hopefully she realises with her spat with Lidington how hard tory resistance will be.

[wigginhall]

Well, Emily is a tough cookie, and rather wacky, which I like.    In a pub-fight, I would pick her over Corbyn as my marrer.  But she probably alienates a lot of people, very posh. 

[jakswan]

If all you cared about was a Labour Govt. (not saying that this is anyone here but some other hypothetical person) then someone like Chuka would be a good choice.

As far as I’m aware elections are won by the floating voters, as one I had to hold my nose and vote Tory last GE, would have switched had Labour had a centrist leading the party.

It was like May wanted to lose, ‘lets rethink fox hunting’, half expected her to claim she was thinking about equal marriage or votes for women.

I can’t vote for a dishonest socialist, be honest ‘we want to spend billions on the NHS but you are going to have to pay for it’ – fine I could vote for that after consideration. Pretending only the rich will be paying for it no thanks.

Actually, Corbyn is keeping May in power, I suspect the DUP would almost agree to almost anything if it meant Corbyn in No.10.