'Enlightenment Now'

[jeremyp]

Are you making an "If you disagree with Pinker then you disagree with progress" type argument.

My own view is probably the Gray view where certain indicators are missing from Pinker's account
And that fatally weakens the argument and renders Pinker an invitation to don the rose tinted spectacles.

Have you read Enlightenment Now? What other Pinker books have you read?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Have you read Enlightenment Now? What the rPinker books have you read?

Everything must look fucking great from the quad at Harvard.

[jeremyp]

Everything must look fucking great from the quad at Harvard.

Don't be shy. Have you read this book that you are criticising freely?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't be shy. Have you read this book that you are criticising freely?

One doesn't have to have studied leprochology to dismiss leprechauns

[Gordon]

One doesn't have to have studied leprochology to dismiss leprechauns

That would be the wrong subject: silly you, it's 'Leprechaunology', Vlad (it's serious stuff mind - it even starts with a capital letter!).

No wonder you don't take the wee fellas seriously.

[jeremyp]

One doesn't have to have studied leprochology to dismiss leprechauns

That's a fine argument if you are claiming the book doesn't exist.

But you are not claiming that, you are claiming things based on its content and even that certain critics are right about the content and you are doing that with no knowledge of its content.

By the way, I haven't read any of Pinker's books either.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That's a fine argument if you are claiming the book doesn't exist.

But you are not claiming that, you are claiming things based on its content and even that certain critics are right about the content and you are doing that with no knowledge of its content.

By the way, I haven't read any of Pinker's books either.

One could be charitable to Pinker. He is romantically infatuated with the enlightenment as both a golden age and a force of Good.
He has finally come round though to the fact that adherence to forces for Good and the all emcompassing is not universal and all people need is a wee nudge and a bit of a revival.

Unfortunately People don't do worthy these days.....and then Stephen has the extra baggage of other competing worthy beliefa which he deals with in the time honored way by damning them as the very devil.

[jeremyp]

One could be charitable to Pinker. He is romantically infatuated with the enlightenment as both a golden age and a force of Good.

How do you know: you haven't read the book?

He has finally come round though to the fact that adherence to forces for Good and the all emcompassing is not universal and all people need is a wee nudge and a bit of a revival.

How do you know: you haven't read the book?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How do you know: you haven't read the book?
How do you know: you haven't read the book?

Jeremy, In todays media age, celebrity authors tend to leave a large media footprint particularly if they are on a mission beyond earning a bit of cash from what they write.
There are the podcasts, the interviews, youtube, book reviews, amazon description, bookshop recommendations and not forgetting the abstract.

It is impossible for anyone interested not to know what Pinker's position is.

Also i'm afraid I cannot read everybook and there are certain books which I will wait for until they pitch up in the local library.

Unless you are seriously suggesting that I might find a recanting from his Dawkinism and a date for a future baptism by total immersion I shall not be rushing out and buying it.

[jeremyp]

Jeremy, In todays media age, celebrity authors tend to leave a large media footprint particularly if they are on a mission beyond earning a bit of cash from what they write.
There are the podcasts, the interviews, youtube, book reviews, amazon description, bookshop recommendations and not forgetting the abstract.

How do you know any of these things are accurate if you haven't read the book?

The reviews of Pinker's book are pretty varied. It has had both good and bad reviews, so some people all least, have got the wrong idea about it.

Also i'm afraid I cannot read everybook and there are certain books which I will wait for until they pitch up in the local library.

But nothing compels you to comment here on books you haven't read.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How do you know any of these things are accurate if you haven't read the book?

The reviews of Pinker's book are pretty varied. It has had both good and bad reviews, so some people all least, have got the wrong idea about it.

But nothing compels you to comment here on books you haven't read.

1: I trust the sources and the abstract. I know what Pinker stands for.
2: But they kind of agree of what they are about and there is a lot of information about this book.
3: I feel I have enough information to comment and certainly on Pinker's views in general. Enlightenment now is his mission Jeremy. It is his War Cry, his cri de Coeur, his cause celebre, his first poo in the potty, his bag.

[jeremyp]

1: I trust the sources and the abstract. I know what Pinker stands for.

The source is the book. You can't trust the book if you haven't read it.

2: But they kind of agree of what they are about and there is a lot of information about this book.
3: I feel I have enough information to comment and certainly on Pinker's views in general. Enlightenment now is his mission Jeremy. It is his War Cry, his cri de Coeur, his cause celebre, his first poo in the potty, his bag.

But this is all based on your assumptions which you arrived at without reading the book. It's worthless.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But this is all based on your assumptions which you arrived at without reading the book. It's worthless.

No it is based amongst other things on reviews presumably based on people who have read it, including leading atheists. If the word of people who have read it is thus worthless how would my reading of it be anymore worthy?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Pinker must experience huge problems squaring science and reason with scientism and he throws economics into this mix and a belief in progress.
IMHO he can only produce an unstable emulsion of elements which have, at the end and through the history of the enlightenment, no reliable predictive power.