Author Topic: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill  (Read 54072 times)

Keith Maitland

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« on: February 10, 2018, 10:21:38 PM »
I think the following commentary by Alain Botton is a very good distillation of our predicament.


The modern world is wonderful in many ways (dentistry is good, cars are reliable, we can so easily keep in touch from Mexico with our grandmother in Scotland) – but it’s also powerfully and tragically geared to causing a high background level of anxiety and widespread low-level depression.

There are six particular features of modernity that have this psychologically disturbing effect. Each one has a potential cure, which we will only collectively put into action when we know more about the disease in question. Here are the six:

1. Meritocracy: Our societies tell us that everyone is free to make it if they have the talent and energy. The down side of this ostensibly liberating and beautiful idea is that any perceived lack of success is taken to be not, as in the past, an accident or misfortune, but a sure sign of a lack of talent or laziness. If those at the top deserve all their success, then those at the bottom must surely deserve all their failure. A society that thinks of itself as meritocratic turns poverty from a problem to evidence of damnation and those who have failed from unfortunates to losers. The cure is a strong, culturally endorsed belief in two big ideas: luck, which says success doesn’t just depend on talent and effort; and tragedy, which says good, decent people can fail and deserve compassion, rather than contempt.

2. Individualism: An individualistic society preaches that the individual and their achievements are everything and that everyone is capable of a special destiny. It is not the community that matters; the group is for no-hopers. To be ‘ordinary’ is regarded as a curse. The result is that the very thing that most of us will end up being, statistically speaking, is associated, with freakish failure. The cure is a cult of the good ordinary life – and proper appreciation of the pleasures and quiet heroism of the everyday.

3. Secularism: Secular societies cease to believe in anything that is bigger than or beyond themselves. Religions used to perform the useful service of keeping our petty ways and status battles in perspective. But now there is nothing to awe or relativise humans, whose triumphs and mishaps end up feeling like the be all and end all. A cure would involve regularly using sources of transcendence to generate a benign, relativising perspective on our personal sorrows: music, the stars at night, the vast spaces of the desert or the ocean would humble us all in consoling ways.

4. Romanticism: The philosophy of Romanticism tells us that each of us has one very special person out there who can make us completely happy. Yet mostly we have to settle for moderately bearable relationships with someone who is very nice in a few ways and pretty difficult in many others. It feels like a disaster – in comparison with our original huge hopes. The cure is to realise that we didn’t go wrong: we were just encouraged to believe in a very improbable dream. Instead we should build up our ambitions around friendship and non-sexual love.

5. The Media: The media has immense prestige and a huge place in our lives – but routinely directs our attention to things that scare, worry, panic and enrage us, while denying us agency or any chance for effective personal action. It typically attends to the least admirable sides of human nature, without a balancing exposure to normal good intentions, responsibility and decency. At its worst, it edges us towards mob justice. The cure would be news that concentrated on presenting solutions rather than generating outrage, that was alive to systemic problems rather than gleefully emphasizing scapegoats and emblematic monsters – and that would regularly remind us that the news we most need to focus on comes from our own lives and direct experiences.

6. Perfectibility: Modern societies stress that it is within our remit to be profoundly content, sane and accomplished. As a result, we end up loathing ourselves, feeling weak and sensing we’ve wasted our lives. A cure would be a culture that endlessly promotes the idea that perfection is not within our grasp – that being mentally slightly (and at points very) unwell is an inescapable part of the human condition and that what we need above all are good friends with whom we can sit and honestly discuss our real fears and vulnerabilities.

The forces of psychological distress in our world are – currently – much wealthier and more active than the needed cures. We deserve tender pity for the price we have to pay for being born in modern times. But more hopefully, cures are now open to us individually and collectively if only we recognise, with sufficient clarity, the sources of our true anxieties and sorrows.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 11:34:20 PM »
Thanks for this.Good article. Expect Pinker quoted at you.

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8253
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 04:28:26 AM »



I agree with the first few points. Today's world for all it conveniences is geared more towards the rational mind and less for the 'heart'. Very individualistic and competitive.

On the plus side, it is possible to generally ignore the world and live your own life, which was not possible in earlier times.

A sense of belonging is what is most conspicuous by its absence.

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 08:49:12 AM »
Good article. I wish I could believe in his 'cures' but I think such aspirations are only going to get harder to realise.  In a world of ever increasing competitiveness, shallowness, resource scarcity, how do people settle for contentment ? It is inbuilt into our nature to follow that dream, to believe

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 09:07:47 AM »
Dear Keith,

Thank you, I had completely forgot what wonderful little journeys this forum could send me on.

https://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0

A excellent TED talk.

From your OP and listening to the TED talk, one message for me stands out, involvement, to make a difference you need to be involved.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 11:22:50 AM »
Good article. I wish I could believe in his 'cures' but I think such aspirations are only going to get harder to realise.  In a world of ever increasing competitiveness, shallowness, resource scarcity, how do people settle for contentment ? It is inbuilt into our nature to follow that dream, to believe

Life experience. Don’t know if it happens to everyone but I think most of us experience something that breaks us open, so that we end up with a completely different set of priorities and clarity of vision. That still may result in a need for change which requires belief, but it won’t be for material things or status, and this is where contentment is found. At least that’s my experience.

floo

  • Guest
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2018, 11:59:56 AM »
There will always be problems in the world. However, I would not wish to go back to the way things were when I was young, I prefer the way it is now, in spite of all that is wrong with it.

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2018, 12:02:24 PM »
https://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0

A excellent TED talk.

Thanks for this, Gonnagle. Some interesting ideas. Atheism 2.0: chuck out all the silly, superstitious nonsense about gods from religion and keep the useful/helpful stuff...

Might be worth a topic of its own?
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Enki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3870
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 12:29:39 PM »
I like it, Gonners. Mind you I've always liked Alain de Botton's approach. I especially liked his discussion on the purpose of art. If only we could take out the good stuff from religions, and not allow rigidity to set in, then I think he's got a point.
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 12:36:32 PM »
I like it, Gonners. Mind you I've always liked Alain de Botton's approach. I especially liked his discussion on the purpose of art. If only we could take out the good stuff from religions, and not allow rigidity to set in, then I think he's got a point.

There's a thread on here about the possibility of rediscovering a concept of the sacred without religion.

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 01:17:19 PM »
Dear Stranger,

 
Quote
keep the useful/helpful stuff...

On you go old son :P I will jump in when the skipping ropes are going fast enough 8)

Gonnagle.


http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32495
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2018, 01:18:45 PM »
I think the following commentary by Alain Botton is a very good distillation of our predicament.
#FirstWorldProblems

If you think we are in a "predicament" go and live in Zimbabwe or the Sudan or Syria for a bit.

Quote
The modern world is wonderful in many ways (dentistry is good, cars are reliable, we can so easily keep in touch from Mexico with our grandmother in Scotland) – but it’s also powerfully and tragically geared to causing a high background level of anxiety and widespread low-level depression.
Bullshit.

Quote
1. Meritocracy: ... The down side of this ostensibly liberating and beautiful idea is that any perceived lack of success is taken to be not, as in the past, an accident or misfortune, but a sure sign of a lack of talent or laziness.
Actually, I don't see much evidence of this happening. Or rather, some people think this does happen, but others don't. For instance, people who have made a success are often labelled as "fat cats" and so on. Also some of us think that people in poverty should be helped no matter that it was their fault or not.

Quote
2. Individualism: An individualistic society preaches that the individual and their achievements are everything and that everyone is capable of a special destiny.

Can you name some of these societies please.

Quote
To be ‘ordinary’ is regarded as a curse. The result is that the very thing that most of us will end up being, statistically speaking, is associated, with freakish failure. The cure is a cult of the good ordinary life – and proper appreciation of the pleasures and quiet heroism of the everyday.
I disagree. I think, in our society, it is more a case that people take the attitude that everybody is special (and therefore nobody is). For example, my boss was telling me that his son brought home an award from his school sports day. The award was for "taking part", not winning (that was deemed unfair to the non winners).

Quote
Secular societies cease to believe in anything that is bigger than or beyond themselves.
That is a complete misrepresentation of what secularism. In a secular society you are free to believe there are bigger things beyond you if you so choose. Secular societies simply don't play favourites in the bigger and beyond stakes.

Quote
Religions used to perform the useful service of keeping our petty ways and status battles in perspective. But now there is nothing to awe or relativise humans, whose triumphs and mishaps end up feeling like the be all and end all.
Religions tell us things like we can't marry somebody if they are of the wrong sex or masturbate or turn on a light switch on Saturday. Religions have some pretty petty ways of their own.

Quote
The philosophy of Romanticism tells us that each of us has one very special person out there who can make us completely happy. Yet mostly we have to settle for moderately bearable relationships with someone who is very nice in a few ways and pretty difficult in many others. It feels like a disaster – in comparison with our original huge hopes. The cure is to realise that we didn’t go wrong: we were just encouraged to believe in a very improbable dream. Instead we should build up our ambitions around friendship and non-sexual love.
In what way is this a modern problem?

Quote
The media has immense prestige and a huge place in our lives – but routinely directs our attention to things that scare, worry, panic and enrage us,


I won't deny that this is a problem. However, is it worse than being fed information by the dictator du jour?

Quote
Modern societies stress that it is within our remit to be profoundly content, sane and accomplished. As a result, we end up loathing ourselves, feeling weak and sensing we’ve wasted our lives. A cure would be a culture that endlessly promotes the idea that perfection is not within our grasp – that being mentally slightly (and at points very) unwell is an inescapable part of the human condition and that what we need above all are good friends with whom we can sit and honestly discuss our real fears and vulnerabilities.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but whilst thankfully never having experienced mental illness myself, I do know a lot of people who have and without exception, they have received the support they needed. I agree that the situation may be different in other societies (thinking of the USA in particular).

Quote
The forces of psychological distress in our world are – currently – much wealthier and more active than the needed cures. We deserve tender pity for the price we have to pay for being born in modern times. But more hopefully, cures are now open to us individually and collectively if only we recognise, with sufficient clarity, the sources of our true anxieties and sorrows.
The modern world has its problems for those who live in it, but your language appears to imply things have got worse. This is patently false.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2018, 01:27:36 PM »
Dear Jeremyp,

You tell that De Botton character, the mans talking a lot of rubbish >:(

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8253
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2018, 01:29:04 PM »

I think the guy in the video is missing the foundation of religion and is latching on to its surface.  Religions are not about architecture, culture, institutions, oratory, travel  etc.    They are about spirituality.

Spirituality is about progression, self development,  love, eternal life, realizing our true self  etc.  The foundation remaining the same, even with very different cultural traditions, architecture, travel etc., like in different religions,  the motivation and involvement will be the same. 

But without the foundation of spirituality, everything else will be hollow.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32495
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 01:30:17 PM »
Dear Jeremyp,

You tell that De Botton character, the mans talking a lot of rubbish >:(

Gonnagle.

I can't stand him - or rather I can't stand his writing (I don't know him personally). Just when we've more or less shed the shackles of religion, he wants to reimpose them but without specific gods.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2018, 01:45:22 PM »
Thanks for this, Gonnagle. Some interesting ideas. Atheism 2.0: chuck out all the silly, superstitious nonsense about gods from religion and keep the useful/helpful stuff...

Might be worth a topic of its own?
I noticed that De Botton included praise and thanksgiving in his list of useful stuff vis Thanking Shakespeare and Thanking Jane Austen as part of an atheist congregation.

There's a bit of a problem with that. Thanking the dead who you believe to be dead.  Isn't that the beginnings of ancestor worship?

Who or what should be praised and thanked collectively by atheists?

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2018, 01:51:53 PM »
I can't stand him - or rather I can't stand his writing (I don't know him personally). Just when we've more or less shed the shackles of religion, he wants to reimpose them but without specific gods.

Yes, let's go back to being told what to think and do. That's progress?

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2018, 01:54:45 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp link=topic=15180.msg717595#msg717595
Religions tell us things like we can't marry somebody if they are of the wrong sex or masturbate.
That would explain why a lot of people on this forum are against it.

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2018, 02:01:26 PM »
Dear Rhiannon,

In the mans TED talk he speaks about Sermons, he mentioned John Wesley who founded the Methodist Church, a great Orator, a good sermon does not tell you what to think but rather makes you think.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 02:07:36 PM »
Dear Rhiannon,

In the mans TED talk he speaks about Sermons, he mentioned John Wesley who founded the Methodist Church, a great Orator, a good sermon does not tell you what to think but rather makes you think.

Gonnagle.

Religion put me in a box.

Is a good sermon one that makes you think, 'this is all bollocks'? Because whenever someone tries to tell me that God loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that's pretty much what happens.

eta Just randomly googled Wesley's sermons and found this from his number 7, the Way to the Kingdom.

'I say of the heart. For neither does religion consist in Orthodoxy, or right opinions; which, although they are not properly outward things, are not in the heart, but the understanding. A man may be orthodox in every point; he may not only espouse right opinions, but zealously defend them against all opposers; he may think justly concerning the incarnation of our Lord, concerning the ever-blessed Trinity, and every other doctrine contained in the oracles of God; he may assent to all the three creeds, -- that called the Apostles', the Nicene, and the Athanasian; and yet it is possible he may have no religion at all, no more than a Jew, Turk, or pagan.'

Still up on the global Methodists website. Nice.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:12:03 PM by Rhiannon »

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5811
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 02:15:01 PM »
I think the following commentary by Alain Botton is a very good distillation of our predicament.

Most of it seems to revolve around self centredness.  A couple of verses from the Tao Te Ching (of 500 BCE) seems to revolve around the same thing but in simpler times.

Why do people starve?
Because the rich corner the wealth to maintain their position.
This is why they starve.
Why are people difficult to lead?
Because officials over-regulate their lives.
This is why they rebel.
Why has life become cheapened?
Because the way of living of the wealthy makes excessive demands
This is why life is cheap;
However, those who do not act from self interest
Rise above those who act from self importance.

Being harmonious is like drawing on a bow,
The top is pulled down, the bottom is raised up;
The deficient is expanded and the surplus reduced.
The essence of harmony is to decrease that which has excess
And divert it to that which has insufficient.
The way of man is not like this.
He takes from those who do not have enough
And gives to those who already have too much.
Who is it who can provide to all from a surplus source?
Only he who is at one with Tao.
Therefore the Wise act without possessing,
Do what needs to be done without attachment
And refrain from seeking acclaim.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32495
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 02:17:26 PM »
That would explain why a lot of people on this forum are against it.
Masturbation?

I think that would only be Floo.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 02:23:54 PM »
Dear Rhiannon,

I am at a loss here, are you being sarcastic or agreeing with me??

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

wigginhall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17730
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 02:25:37 PM »
Jeremyp has dealt with most of this, but I can never understand these complaints about the modern world, and its predicament.  I grew up in a slum with no bathroom - hey, is it better to have a bathroom?  Rhetorical question.  My parents were eventually able to have foreign holidays, but sure, they had a burning existential doubt in their souls, heavy sarcasm.   

It also seems very generalized, although I haven't read the original.   We end up hating ourselves - really?   Who, when, how, where?
   
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:29:03 PM by wigginhall »
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 02:40:29 PM »
Dear Wigs,

Must just be me but I think the man is talking complete sense but then maybe the NHS is in fine fettle, maybe there is no childhood obesity, maybe our kids teeth are not rotten by the age of five, maybe we are not on the brink of Brexit because we want to get rid of all those Johnny foreigners, maybe all those terrorist attacks have absolutely nothing to do with me, I am innocent m'lud, I could go on and on, climate change etc etc etc, but no, I don't think the man is talking about us now having indoor plumbing.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.