How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad,

Not just this forum ( I am not saying all ) I know you still remember the time Dawkins shut his forum down, much gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth

Gonnagle.

Yes there is, it strikes me, a fair amount of what used to be called wrath around in New Atheist circles.
I think many atheists do not credit Dawkins enough with the stamp, tenor and tone he has bequethed to his congregations.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

I think most atheists say, there is no God/gods full stop.

Gonnagle.

Of the ones on here, and the ones I know very few say there are no gods. But the point is I'm talking about what I say and that is surely what is relevant to discussions about what I believe?

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Vlad,

Not just this forum ( I am not saying all ) I know you still remember the time Dawkins shut his forum down, much gnashing of teeth and foaming at the mouth

Gonnagle.

Do they tend to be though? Which would mean a majority of atheists on here. Who do you think follows Vlad's description ?

[Enki]

Dear Sane,

I think most atheists say, there is no God/gods full stop.

Gonnagle.

Totally wrong in my case, Gonners. I have no idea if any god exists but I've never come across any evidence that one(or more than one) does. So, how can I say that 'there is no God/gods'. I can only say that I have no belief in any god whatever. Hence, unless evidence comes to light, the whole lot of them have only incidental significance(cultural, historical) in the way in which I conduct my life.

[floo]

I hope no god exists, otherwise I am in the deep proverbial!

[Nearly Sane]

I hope no god exists, otherwise I am in the deep proverbial!

Why?

[Gonnagle]

Dear enki,

Never would I put you in the category of neoatheist, new atheist, arrogant atheist, angry atheist, but there are many out there at the mere mention of religion/God go off on one, on this thread we have good old Jeremyp, he dislikes De Botton,

Just when we've more or less shed the shackles of religion, he wants to reimpose them but without specific gods.

More or less shed the shackles!! De Botton wants to engage, old Jeremyp, my way or the highway.

No offence Jeremyp, just making a point.

Gonnagle.

PS: Now off for a haircut

[Nearly Sane]

Dear enki,

Never would I put you in the category of neoatheist, new atheist, arrogant atheist, angry atheist, but there are many out there at the mere mention of religion/God go off on one, on this thread we have good old Jeremyp, he dislikes De Botton,

More or less shed the shackles!! De Botton wants to engage, old Jeremyp, my way or the highway.

No offence Jeremyp, just making a point.

Gonnagle.

PS: Now off for a haircut

So because jeremyp disagrees with De Botton he is somehow saying There are no gods? Rhiannon also disagrees with de Botton, is she saying there are no gods?

[Stranger]

How about the word God? For the person that has no response to that I would imagine it is hard to give one to or get someone to have a response.

But I think those people are few and far between. More common are those who feel a strange but vague glow at the word or a bit of a vague feeling of discomfort. These are eminently explorable I would have said.

My response to the word 'god' lies somewhere between horoscopes or ghosts and anti-vaccination or climate change denial. I see it as as superstition like horoscopes or ghosts and potentially dangerous like anti-vaccination or climate change denial.

How does that help?

[wigginhall]

I used to get a vague kind of glow, as Vlad puts it, but now I just go blank.   It's like somebody talking about Manchester City, I know that some people glow a lot about them, but I go blank.   Never mind.  It's too early for a drink, so I'll have to make do with a sandwich. 

[ippy]

Dear Sane,

I think most atheists say, there is no God/gods full stop.

Gonnagle.

I think you'll find Gonners that most people that are non-believers, are non-believers because they see no good reason to believe these things people like your good self refer to as god or gods are actually there to believe in, in the first place.

I don't disbelieve in god, how would I be able to disbelieve in something that there is no reason to think is around somewhere for me to disbelieve in?

This is where Leprechauns, Unicorns or the Tooth Fairy come into the frame, I've no more reason to believe in that lot any more than I have reason to believe in your god idea.

Regards ippy

[Stranger]

I think most atheists say, there is no God/gods full stop.

Not this atheist. I just can't see a reason to take any of the many, many, varied, and often mutually contradictory notions of god at all seriously.

On the other hand, while some god-concepts can be ruled out (due to logical inconsistency or contrary evidence), I cannot positively rule out that something (or things) exists in all of reality that might reasonably be described as 'god'.

[wigginhall]

Yes, I thought it was the other way round, that most atheists do not claim that there is no god.   How would they know?  But I can't find stats on it, although I remember that Dawkins did do a survey, on his forum, but can't find it.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

So because jeremyp disagrees with De Botton he is somehow saying There are no gods? Rhiannon also disagrees with de Botton, is she saying there are no gods?

Disagrees?? Yes Rhiannon disagrees, Jeremyp thinks he has been shackled!

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

My response to the word 'god' lies somewhere between horoscopes or ghosts and anti-vaccination or climate change denial. I see it as as superstition like horoscopes or ghosts and potentially dangerous like anti-vaccination or climate change denial.

How does that help?

Yes that helps, my belief in God is just superstition and dangerous??

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

My response to the word 'god' lies somewhere between horoscopes or ghosts and anti-vaccination or climate change denial. I see it as as superstition like horoscopes or ghosts and potentially dangerous like anti-vaccination or climate change denial.

Sounds like you are defining God as something you don't like. Besides there is scientific evidence for vaccination and climate change, what is the scientific evidence for atheism?

Horoscopes and ghosts are pseudoscientific but there are many views of God which don't involve science or sit quite happily with it.

That leaves the question then what is the real reason for your initial reaction to God?

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

Disagrees?? Yes Rhiannon disagrees, Jeremyp thinks he has been shackled!

Gonnagle.

So - your point is to do with either most atheists stating that there is no god, in which case jeremyp disagreeing with de Botton is irrelevant. Or that most atheists on this forum fit in with Vlad's description and I don't see how jeremyp's reply fits in to that?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

I said many not most, and your disagree, he does not just disagree he dislikes, he uses the word shackles!

Gonnagle.

[floo]

Why?

If it sends you to burn in hell forever for mere unbelief, as I was taught as a child, that wouldn't be very pleasant would it?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Vlad,

That leaves the question then what is the real reason for your initial reaction to God?

Sorry old chap, against the rules, sub section 5 paragraph 4 of the forum rules, thou shall not ask the atheist to examine their beliefs, it makes them think!

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad,

Sorry old chap, against the rules, sub section 5 paragraph 4 of the forum rules, thou shall not ask the atheist to examine their beliefs, it makes them think!

Gonnagle.

Yes, I have noticed a reluctance to take the other part in any, as Hillside would put it, interlocution.

[Stranger]

Yes that helps, my belief in God is just superstition and dangerous??

Not exactly...

• I actually can't work out what your belief actually is. You are so often the voice of reason on so many topics here but I just can't grasp the notion believing in something when you can't say what it is. I find you baffling.
  
  
• I said that was my (general) reaction to the word 'god' not to every single person's individual faith.
  
  
• Whereas I have yet to come across a god-concept that isn't (what I'd describe as) superstition, I only claimed that they are potentially dangerous. Quite clearly not all instances of belief in god(s) are dangerous and some seem to inspire positive attitudes in those who hold them.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Vlad,

Sorry old chap, against the rules, sub section 5 paragraph 4 of the forum rules, thou shall not ask the atheist to examine their beliefs, it makes them think!

Gonnagle.

Is that true? Do you feel comfortable saying that, Gonzo? It reads like a lazy generalisation to me.

[Stranger]

Sounds like you are defining God as something you don't like.

I wasn't defining god as anything - you asked for my reaction to the word, which is what I gave you.

Besides there is scientific evidence for vaccination and climate change, what is the scientific evidence for atheism?

Horoscopes and ghosts are pseudoscientific but there are many views of God which don't involve science or sit quite happily with it.

Once again, you asked for a reaction, not something directly comparable in every way.

That leaves the question then what is the real reason for your initial reaction to God?

The (real) reasons for my reaction is that I have never been presented with a reason to think that the various god concepts are anything more than superstition and that some people's god-concepts lead them to take attitudes that are dangerous.
 

[Stranger]

Sorry old chap, against the rules, sub section 5 paragraph 4 of the forum rules, thou shall not ask the atheist to examine their beliefs, it makes them think!

Are you able you come up with some objective reason (evidence or logical argument) to take a god-concept seriously? If you can't - I would suggest that it is you who is not examining your beliefs...