Author Topic: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill (Read 54243 times)

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #600 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:32:51 AM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:30:15 AM

Mr Sane

If you yearn for a world that comprises of a paper, a pie and a pint then in one sense that is your world view but given that idea might make you angry lets not call it that.

My approach is if you don't have a world view what warrant do you for taking part in a debate about it or even criticising someone elses?

This post was brought to you courtesy of The Gonnagleisation of posts scheme......
Getting straight there in a pithy sentence.

What, to your mind, is a world view? I'm still not sure what one is.

wigginhall · « **Reply #601 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:34:33 AM »

Why do I need a warrant to take part in a debate? Is there some rule that I've missed?

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #602 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:37:28 AM »

Quote from: wigginhall on February 21, 2018, 11:34:33 AM

Why do I need a warrant to take part in a debate? Is there some rule that I've missed?

Is announcing that this debate is all shit ''taking part in debate'' Wigginhall?

Stranger · « **Reply #603 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:38:47 AM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:20:36 AM

A ''better human'' and allowing people who are by their own volition retreating from God to enjoy God fully are at best not addressing the points at all and at worse complete contradiction.

But people who do not believe are not (generally speaking) "by their own volition retreating from God" - that's nothing but your fantasy. Finding all the multitudinous and contradictory god stories variously absurd, contradictory, and lacking in supporting evidence or sound reasoning is not a retreat. Neither do they want to "enjoy God fully" - they don't believe there is a god to enjoy.

As for "better humans" - once again, if everybody falls short of god's standard and needs 'saving' and forgiving, then god is applying an inappropriate standard to the beings it created.

Whatever happened in the past (the 'fall') doesn't change the justice and fairness of the situation people now find themselves in. People today didn't choose the 'fall'.

According to you - the way to please god now is to believe something that appears to be obvious nonsense or face the 'consequences' of which you speak.

That is manifestly unjust and unfair.

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #604 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:41:43 AM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on February 21, 2018, 11:32:51 AM

What, to your mind, is a world view? I'm still not sure what one is.

what is going on?
How is it going on?
why is anything on?
what are the limits of the going on?
Is there any meaning to the going on?

wigginhall · « **Reply #605 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:41:56 AM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:37:28 AM

Is announcing that this debate is all shit ''taking part in debate'' Wigginhall?

Reference?

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #606 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:42:16 AM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:37:28 AM

Is announcing that this debate is all shit ''taking part in debate'' Wigginhall?

Even for you that's an egregious lie.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #607 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:43:35 AM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:41:43 AM

what is going on?
How is it going on?
why is anything on?
what are the limits of the going on?
Is there any meaning to the going on?

That appears to be a random set of questions rather than any form of definition. And some of them seem incoherent,

wigginhall · « **Reply #608 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:44:45 AM »

I don't know what is going on. Any suggestions?

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #609 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:47:45 AM »

Quote from: wigginhall on February 21, 2018, 11:41:56 AM

Reference?

Frazer, P. (2018). Rectal extraction and lying. Dishonestville: Fraud and Fake News.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #610 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:51:42 AM »

Quote from: wigginhall on February 21, 2018, 11:44:45 AM

I don't know what is going on. Any suggestions?

' Picket lines and picket signs'?

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #611 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM »

Quote from: Stranger on February 21, 2018, 11:38:47 AM

But people who do not believe are not (generally speaking) "by their own volition retreating from God" - that's nothing but your fantasy. Finding all the multitudinous and contradictory god stories variously absurd, contradictory, and lacking in supporting evidence or sound reasoning is not a retreat. Neither do they want to "enjoy God fully" - they don't believe there is a god to enjoy.

As for "better humans" - once again, if everybody falls short of god's standard and needs 'saving' and forgiving, then god is applying an inappropriate standard to the beings it created.

Whatever happened in the past (the 'fall') doesn't change the justice and fairness of the situation people now find themselves in. People today didn't choose the 'fall'.

According to you - the way to please god now is to believe something that appears to be obvious nonsense or face the 'consequences' of which you speak.

That is manifestly unjust and unfair.

The better human would have to be unable to do anything but to love God.
How is that human? That is manifestly unjust and unfair.

Forcing a human who does not want to enjoy God, To enjoy God is really the same thing and therefore as manifestly unjust and unfair.

I want to walk away from a relationship with God but I want all the benefits of that relationship with God is illogical and unreasonable.

Saying that God does not forgive is ignoring the message of christianity.

I seem to be repeating myself.

Gonnagle · « **Reply #612 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »

Dear Sane,

Quote

'Hath not an atheist eyes? Hath not an atheist hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a theist is? If you prick us, do we not bleed?'

Aye we are all human but the example I gave, The Stranger is all, but don't call it a God day

and no I don't want another debate about this, simply asking does the fact you are a atheist affect your thinking, I think it does, it must, maybe not to great extent for you, you are not the foaming at the mouth type ( well unless someone touches your beer ).

I am not looking for quick answers here, I am asking the atheist to have a long hard think, why? I honestly think they will have a better understanding of how theists think, it might stop some being so judgmental, after all questioning your own thinking is no bad thing, I do it all the time, and yes I need to work on my ego, my thinking is always beautiful thoughts.

Gonnagle.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #613 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:55:37 AM »

Quote from: Gonnagle on February 21, 2018, 11:54:06 AM

Dear Sane,

Aye we are all human but the example I gave, The Stranger is all, but don't call it a God day and no I don't want another debate about this, simply asking does the fact you are a atheist affect your thinking, I think it does, it must, maybe not to great extent for you, you are not the foaming at the mouth type ( well unless someone touches your beer ).

I am not looking for quick answers here, I am asking the atheist to have a long hard think, why? I honestly think they will have a better understanding of how theists think, they might stop being so judgmental, after all questioning your own thinking is no bad thing, I do it all the time, and yes I need to work on my ego, my thinking is always beautiful thoughts.

Gonnagle.

you seem to judging all atheists as being too judgemental?

Gonnagle · « **Reply #614 on:** February 21, 2018, 11:59:52 AM »

Dear Sane,

Not all! Right!! Not all!

Gonnagle.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #615 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:02:54 PM »

Quote from: Gonnagle on February 21, 2018, 11:59:52 AM

Dear Sane,

Not all! Right!! Not all!

Gonnagle.

From your post

' I am asking the atheist to have a long hard think, why? I honestly think they will have a better understanding of how theists think, they might stop being so judgmental'

Maybe you didn't mean to say that but how else can the above be read?

Gonnagle · « **Reply #616 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:07:33 PM »

Dear Sensible,

Fixed it, right!! Ya big person that you are!

Gonnagle.

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #617 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:07:43 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on February 21, 2018, 11:42:16 AM

Even for you that's an egregious lie.

To me you and Wigginhall are proponents of the woolysphere in which World views are not appropriate for the man in his hutch for whom a paper, a pie, and a pint suffices. In other words IMHO you think that debating it is ''all shit''.

If you think I'm wrong Sane explain your own position instead of IMHO sneering at people who want to talk world views.

To me the issue is how can someone who views world views thus logically and meaningfully take part in a debate about it.

Is someone like Walter who stands up and says ''prove it'' and that's it debating?

please answer these points and not just rest on the facile accusation of lie.

You and Wiggs are like the Mr Kidd and Mr Wint of the forum. Having despatched 0061/2 codename Bluehillside, I feel you are now working on me.

Walter · « **Reply #618 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:10:42 PM »

Quote from: Gonnagle on February 21, 2018, 11:54:06 AM

Dear Sane,

Aye we are all human but the example I gave, The Stranger is all, but don't call it a God day and no I don't want another debate about this, simply asking does the fact you are a atheist affect your thinking, I think it does, it must, maybe not to great extent for you, you are not the foaming at the mouth type ( well unless someone touches your beer ).

I am not looking for quick answers here, I am asking the atheist to have a long hard think, why? I honestly think they will have a better understanding of how theists think, it might stop some being so judgmental, after all questioning your own thinking is no bad thing, I do it all the time, and yes I need to work on my ego, my thinking is always beautiful thoughts.

Gonnagle.

being an atheist does not cause me to be angry. However ,your sanctimonious way of thinking invites ridicule .
Don't confuse ridicule with anger , it's not the same thing .

Gonnagle · « **Reply #619 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:11:22 PM »

Dear Vlad,

With you old son, it's a forum for questioning, all's fair in Love and war with words

Gonnagle.

wigginhall · « **Reply #620 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:11:52 PM »

Why can't I deconstruct the idea of a world view? To do that, I don't need to have a world view, I just need some arguments.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #621 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:13:09 PM »

Quote from: Gonnagle on February 21, 2018, 12:11:22 PM

Dear Vlad,

With you old son, it's a forum for questioning, all's fair in Love and war with words

Gonnagle.

So you support Vlad lying about wigginhall's position?

Stranger · « **Reply #622 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:13:25 PM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

The better human would have to be unable to do anything but to love God.

Don't be silly. At present (according to you) we have humans who all (100%) fail to live up to god's standard and you are claiming that the only possible alternative to that is to create humans who would all (100%) pass?

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

How is that human? That is manifestly unjust and unfair.

Whatever you say about 100% pass is equally applicable to 100% fail.

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

Forcing a human who does not want to enjoy God, To enjoy God is really the same thing and therefore as manifestly unjust and unfair.

Who suggested such a thing?

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

I want to walk away from a relationship with God but I want all the benefits of that relationship with God is illogical and unreasonable.

For fuck's sake Vlad, what part of this didn't you understand:

But people who do not believe are not (generally speaking) "by their own volition retreating from God" - that's nothing but your fantasy. Finding all the multitudinous and contradictory god stories variously absurd, contradictory, and lacking in supporting evidence or sound reasoning is not a retreat. Neither do they want to "enjoy God fully" - they don't believe there is a god to enjoy.

??

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

Saying that God does not forgive is ignoring the message of christianity.

I didn't say that.

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 11:53:34 AM

I seem to be repeating myself.

As an alternative, I suggest reading what is said to you, thinking about it, and then responding to it.

Gonnagle · « **Reply #623 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:13:53 PM »

Dear Waltz,

Quote

being an atheist does not cause me to be angry. However ,your sanctimonious way of thinking invites ridicule .
Don't confuse ridicule with anger , it's not the same thing .

Thanks for the clarification!

Gonnagle.

Walter · « **Reply #624 on:** February 21, 2018, 12:15:28 PM »

Quote from: Private Frazer on February 21, 2018, 12:07:43 PM

To me you and Wigginhall are proponents of the woolysphere in which World views are not appropriate for the man in his hutch for whom a paper, a pie, and a pint suffices. In other words IMHO you think that debating it is ''all shit''.

If you think I'm wrong Sane explain your own position instead of IMHO sneering at people who want to talk world views.

To me the issue is how can someone who views world views thus logically and meaningfully take part in a debate about it.

Is someone like Walter who stands up and says ''prove it'' and that's it debating?

please answer these points and not just rest on the facile accusation of lie.

You and Wiggs are like the Mr Kidd and Mr Wint of the forum. Having despatched 0061/2 codename Bluehillside, I feel you are now working on me.

there is no debate . By elevating your beliefs to the status of 'debate' does not give it any more value than it had before; ie zero . Unless you can provide supporting evidence ,of course .

News:

Author Topic: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill (Read 54243 times)