Author Topic: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill  (Read 54255 times)

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #675 on: February 21, 2018, 02:59:49 PM »
Dear ippy,

Aye that's me, me and my deep seated indoctrination, I suppose it just crept up on me, sort of ninja style indoctrination.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64320
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #676 on: February 21, 2018, 03:01:04 PM »
Dear ippy,

Aye that's me, me and my deep seated indoctrination, I suppose it just crept up on me, sort of ninja style indoctrination.

Gonnagle.
And deeply seated you apparently!!!

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #677 on: February 21, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »
If believing there is no God is sense it isn't common.

You're so mixed up Vlad, I see no good reason to think there is such a thing as a god, I like most non-religious people see it this way around, generally we're not disbelievers.

Regards ippy

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #678 on: February 21, 2018, 03:02:37 PM »
Dear ippy,

Aye that's me, me and my deep seated indoctrination, I suppose it just crept up on me, sort of ninja style indoctrination.

Gonnagle.
Were you taken away by nuns and shown videos of Dawkins while having needles under your fingernails?.......I'm just wondering how it's done and that.

Enki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3870
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #679 on: February 21, 2018, 03:03:43 PM »
Dear enki,

Yes it does help and I would love to have a conversation with your wonderful Angel of Mercy, one question I would ask, has she always been a atheist or did she lose her faith.

I would ask what drives her compassion, yes brotherly love would be one of them but are there other factors.

As I type this I am treading on eggshells, not wanting to say the wrong thing, your post is a beautiful post and should be treated as such but I will add, your good lady walks with my God every single day, she worships the Father every single day, I have said this before, but there are atheists who have more Christianity in their little finger than most Christians I have met, God Bless her ;)

Gonnagle.

I might be wrong but I think that we would have much more in common than that which divides us, Gonners.

She would hate to be called an 'angel of mercy'. She is simply doing what she feels is the right thing for her (perhaps this is the main reason she went into nursing in the first place). and, I would like to add, she has plenty of bad and irritating points(although she might well disagree with me on that). What drives her compassion, I think, is what drives most people's compassion, inner feelings of empathy and a wish to alleviate some of the bad things in life on a personal level. Being such a single minded person, when it comes to such things, she doesn't dwell on sentiment, but actually acts in a practical way to help.

She was never religious, so the idea of losing one's faith isn't really of any real significance in her life. However, she can react unfavourably to the things she hates about many religions, and, I suspect that this was partly the result of a very traumatic experience, when she was fairly young. What follows will explain that comment, and is something that I put on this Forum some years ago on a different thread. At that point I  called her a very dear friend. With her agreement, I would like to say she is a very dear friend and also my wife. This is what she wrote, in her own words, spelling mistakes and all:

Quote
At the age of eighteen I was unmarried and pregnant. This was in the early sixties.  It was considered by society, at that time, that to be pregnant and unmarried was unacceptable. So my only option was a mother and baby home resulting in adoption.  The home that was chosen for me was run by a group of catholic nuns.
The home consisted of two large Victorian houses, one to house girls until six weeks pre birth. The last six weeks of pregnancy, birth and time spent waiting for the adoption to be arranged, was spent in the adjoining house. 
We had to pay our board and lodgings.  Except that each week our personal finances were reviewed by the nuns and if they considered we had too much money, they took it. I hid mine to avoid this!
Food was often inadequate, yet if questioned the amounts changed temporarily.
We were allowed little in respect of personal items.
We were not allowed post, we had to use the local Post office.
Friendships were discouraged and girls were split up when these became obvious.
We had little freedom, times allowed out were rigid with one late pass per month til 10pm.
No telephone, no family visitors allowed.
Little pre or post natal care.
No discussion or advice  whatsoever about having a baby.
No understanding shown about the situation we were in.
Little or no conversation with nuns.
We worked constantly doing household tasks.
No entertainment, no tv, radio, music.
We had to attend the 'in house church' every day, being repeatedly told about the error of our ways. Constantly riminded that we had no one to blame but ourselves. We had to pray to God for forgiveness or we would go to hell.
No information about the actual adoption, the nuns were doing us a favour in removing the baby, giving it a chance for a decent life!
Any girl wanting to keep their baby was put under huge pressure to change their mind.  Most did.
We felt that this pressure indicated that the babies were being sold, but I know of no evidence for this!
The whole experience was one of being in a prison with hard cold people who cared nothing for us or the babies.
Girls were not allowed to help each other when a birth was imminent.We were locked out of the delivery room.
I have no memory of the birth, except a dark room and a strange smell.  I cannot remember having a baby.
The nuns were cold.  They did not appear to care about us at all. Their regime had to be followed at all costs and it was an arduous one.
We were not allowed to care for our babies, the nursery being locked after feeds so that a mother could not attend to a crying baby.  Consequently the house was always full of the sound of screaming babies.
I was lucky in some respects.  My baby had a low birth weight, so I had to do an extra feed at 2am.  I would spend most of the night nursing my baby going to bed about half an hour before 6am.  (Time to get up and feed)
When the time came to give up the baby we were told the night before and given  no information whatsoever about this process.
I had to find my own way with all my luggage and a baby, to a central building in the city, where the head nun just said "hello", took the baby and told me to leave.
We were not allowed any information about the adoptees and had to sign a form giving up all rights to the baby.


The ethos was coldness and punishment with the constant reminder that we were sinners and had to pray daily for Gods forgiveness.


As regards your last paragraph, I don't have any animosity at all for you saying this. This is what you think, no problem, and furthermore, I'm sure you are saying it with the best of intentions.  Obviously both my wife and I don't think that way at all simply because  neither of us are religious.

I would  also like to thank NS for putting my last response on the Forum's Best Bits, and also Rhi for her lovely comment there. I did not expect this, and it came as a pleasant surprise. :)

Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #680 on: February 21, 2018, 03:05:12 PM »
You're so mixed up Vlad, I see no good reason to think there is such a thing as a god, I like most non-religious people see it this way around, generally we're not disbelievers.

Regards ippy
Have you eliminated cultural influences after all this is a secular country.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #681 on: February 21, 2018, 03:11:09 PM »
Dear ippy,

Aye that's me, me and my deep seated indoctrination, I suppose it just crept up on me, sort of ninja style indoctrination.

Gonnagle.

If you go back to my previous post to you you'll see where I indicated, I thought it probable you may have been indoctrinated when young, obviously I can't know how you were indoctrinated or when but most are indoctrinated with religion when very young.

The deep seated is where you, it seems to me, invariably reject the rational, like as I mentioned before, Bert's teapot.

Regards ippy   

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #682 on: February 21, 2018, 03:13:24 PM »
Have you eliminated cultural influences after all this is a secular country.

What are you on about now Vlad?

Regards ippy

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #683 on: February 21, 2018, 03:38:18 PM »
What are you on about now Vlad?

Regards ippy
You may be culturally brainwashed in thinking religion is crackpot.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #684 on: February 21, 2018, 03:48:46 PM »
You may be culturally brainwashed in thinking religion is crackpot.

Not really Vlad, it's just the small fact that there's no evidence been offered that's verifiable for the magical, mystical or any of the superstition based parts of it, as you must be aware.

The evidence for the rest of it's not that convincing either, I suppose still believing in religions when in possession of the facts, such as they are, is, putting it mildly, a bit questionable.

Regards ippy   

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5811
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #685 on: February 21, 2018, 03:54:37 PM »
A bit like a child who invents an imaginary friend to satisfy some need ?
Yes, but it doesn't need to be an imaginary friend.  It can be a source of power, a source of love, a source of protection, a source of life, etc usually with a means of invoking them, which is what 'God' means ... that which is invoked.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #686 on: February 21, 2018, 03:56:01 PM »
Not really Vlad, it's just the small fact that there's no evidence been offered that's verifiable for the magical, mystical or any of the superstition based parts of it, as you must be aware.

The evidence for the rest of it's not that convincing either, I suppose still believing in religions when in possession of the facts, such as they are, is, putting it mildly, a bit questionable.

Regards ippy
Brainwashed

If you have no world view like empiricism, scientism and naturalism then all you have is ridicule or lack of interest in religion. That's cultural.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 03:58:59 PM by Private Frazer »

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #687 on: February 21, 2018, 04:08:21 PM »
If you have no world view like empiricism, scientism and naturalism then all you have is ridicule or lack of interest in religion.

Drivel. All one needs to dismiss religion is a general requirement for good reasons to in order to accept propositions about matters of fact.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5811
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #688 on: February 21, 2018, 04:10:39 PM »
1...Something wrong with desire or need?
2...Seems like you have a desire and need to avoid desire and need.
1... It depends upon the desire e.g. the desire to kill a lot of children in a school would be wrong.
2...No, just a desire to see them for what they are and to manage them rather than blindly allow them to manage me.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #689 on: February 21, 2018, 04:24:02 PM »
Brainwashed

If you have no world view like empiricism, scientism and naturalism then all you have is ridicule or lack of interest in religion. That's cultural.

I've never been tortured, except perhaps trying to unravel one of your posts feels like torture, get the O E D out and look up 'brainwashing', I do know what you mean but you've used the wrong word, but to be fair you're not on your own.

Regards ippy

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #690 on: February 21, 2018, 05:01:36 PM »
Dear enki,

How do I reply to yet another wonderful post, first of all by saying I will delve no deeper, the RC Church, hell most Churches of that time have a lot to answer for, sadly that kind of Christian thinking is still rife but they are becoming fewer and fewer, those nuns may have thought they were doing the Lords will but sadly they were doing the Churches will, Churchianity versus Christianity.

But I will thank you for sharing, it is not often that a atheist opens up, shares part of their journey, very refreshing, better than being beaten over the head by some guy called Bert and his amazing teapot :P

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #691 on: February 21, 2018, 05:13:22 PM »
Dear Vlad,

Quote
Were you taken away by nuns and shown videos of Dawkins while having needles under your fingernails?.......I'm just wondering how it's done and that.

Much more subtle than that, someone told me baby Jesus wanted me for a sunbeam, I was of a certain age to think, hey that sounds cool, I also was given a toy helicopter, that sealed the deal, sunbeams and helicopters, oh and there was orange squash and cake, those pesky Christians know how to turn a young lads head.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64320
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #692 on: February 21, 2018, 05:18:53 PM »
Dear Vlad,

Much more subtle than that, someone told me baby Jesus wanted me for a sunbeam, I was of a certain age to think, hey that sounds cool, I also was given a toy helicopter, that sealed the deal, sunbeams and helicopters, oh and there was orange squash and cake, those pesky Christians know how to turn a young lads head.

Gonnagle.
As I have posted before the Pentecostalists once seduced me with the offer of singing and cake to run away at the age of 5 to join them
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 05:21:32 PM by Nearly Sane »

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #693 on: February 21, 2018, 05:24:49 PM »
Dear Vlad,

Much more subtle than that, someone told me baby Jesus wanted me for a sunbeam, I was of a certain age to think, hey that sounds cool, I also was given a toy helicopter, that sealed the deal, sunbeams and helicopters, oh and there was orange squash and cake, those pesky Christians know how to turn a young lads head.

Gonnagle.
sounds like grooming to me. Bloody weird !

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #694 on: February 21, 2018, 05:46:31 PM »
Dear Waltz,

Oh there was grooming to, but that was done by my dear old Ma, I never thought to ask her why I needed clean underwear to visit baby Jesus's house, I expect it was because of Mrs Johnstone who ran the Sunday school, that old biddy looked down her nose at everybody, she was a right pillock pillar of the community >:(

Gonnagle.

http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Walter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #695 on: February 21, 2018, 06:11:58 PM »
Dear Waltz,

Oh there was grooming to, but that was done by my dear old Ma, I never thought to ask her why I needed clean underwear to visit baby Jesus's house, I expect it was because of Mrs Johnstone who ran the Sunday school, that old biddy looked down her nose at everybody, she was a right pillock pillar of the community >:(

Gonnagle.
as I said, weird!

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #696 on: February 21, 2018, 06:31:48 PM »
Dear Waltzer,

Aye that's Christians for you weirdest of the weird now about this flying spaghetti monster, how exactly does it fly?

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #697 on: February 21, 2018, 07:16:06 PM »
Aye that's Christians for you weirdest of the weird now about this flying spaghetti monster, how exactly does it fly?

It's a deep mystery, that you need to spend many, many years in humble mediation and obedience to your Noodly Master to even begin to understand. I see no evidence that you have even begun to study - have you never been touched by His Noodly Appendages? Your should read The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I've never understood non-pastafarians - what possible reasons can you have to disbelieve? People who I ask never give a straight answer, they turn it on its head and ask why I believe! Even worse, some just they just say that there is no reason to believe in the FSM or that it's 'silly'! What sort of answer is that!?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 07:20:20 PM by Stranger »
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #698 on: February 21, 2018, 07:27:27 PM »
It's a deep mystery, that you need to spend many, many years in humble mediation and obedience to your Noodly Master to even begin to understand. I see no evidence that you have even begun to study - have you never been touched by His Noodly Appendages? Your should read The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I've never understood non-pastafarians - what possible reasons can you have to disbelieve? People who I ask never give a straight answer, they turn it on its head and ask why I believe! Even worse, some just they just say that there is no reason to believe in the FSM or that it's 'silly'! What sort of answer is that!?
You're talking meatballs

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: How The Modern World Makes Us Mentally Ill
« Reply #699 on: February 21, 2018, 07:32:17 PM »
Dear Stranger,

Thanks for that, it has been a strange day of walk down memory lane for me today, just for once I had  hoped for something new but no, same old same old.

Have you read the thread about putting The God Delusion on stage, same old same old.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.