Trump and the NHS

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a CNN article about the NHS in the UK, including Trump's views on it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/10/health/uk-nhs-universal-health-coverage-crisis-point-intl/index.html

**********

"Thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U(niversal) system is going broke and not working," President Donald Trump tweeted of the thousands who demonstrated February 3 for more money to finance the service.

British Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt soon fought back, defending the system whose budget he determines and tweeting that 28 million people in the United States "have no cover."

Prime Minister Theresa May responded that she was proud of Britain's health service.

Compared with the complexities of obtaining and being eligible for insurance, the idea of a national health service is indeed simple -- to its users. For those financing it, not so much.

NHS funding is one of the most hotly contested issues in British politics, with all parties wanting to know how to maintain universal access to care at a time of rising costs and demand. The system seems to be splitting at its seams. Is it broken?

......, the UK is one of the lowest health care spenders among developed G7 countries. The US government and its citizens spent 17.2% of GDP on health care in 2017.

But this winter, thousands of non-emergency procedures were canceled and a strained system was put in the spotlight amid a flu outbreak that pushed the health service to its limit. Despite planning for a surge in cases, routine procedures were canceled to free up beds, yet emergency rooms were still overwhelmed with tens of thousands of people each day.

In January alone, 2 million people went to emergency rooms in England, with more than a quarter of them admitted, and 15% of them waited longer than four hours to be seen. The NHS goal is for under 5% of people to wait longer than four hours.

Patients are dying in hallways while they wait for beds, senior emergency room doctors told CNN in an earlier report.

***********

Cheers.

Sriram

[jeremyp]

Yeah, what is your point?

[Sriram]

Why should I have any point?  It is just a subject that may be of interest to you British folk....that's all!

[floo]

Trump has absolutely no business sticking his nose into our healthcare issues, when those in his own country are appalling.

[jeremyp]

Why should I have any point?  It is just a subject that may be of interest to you British folk....that's all!

Sorry, I just thought this was a discussion forum. I thought you might like to discuss something.

[Sriram]

Sorry, I just thought this was a discussion forum. I thought you might like to discuss something.

I have never used the NHS and know nothing about it. I thought you people on here may have something to discuss about it, it being your primary health service! There seems o be a crisis of some sort....and even Trump has commented. The article raises some issues.

I have nothing to say.

G'night!

[Robbie]

It annoys me that Trump exaggerates and, frankly, lies about the NHS.  I've certainly seen none of what he describes. Has anyone else?

There have been no marches.

[Nearly Sane]

It annoys me that Trump exaggerates and, frankly, lies about the NHS.  I've certainly seen none of what he describes. Has anyone else?

There have been no marches.

This is the march being referred to

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-crisis-protest-thousands-march-downing-street-funding-a8192911.html

[Robbie]

I didn't know about that. From what Trump said:-
"Thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U(niversal) system is going broke and not working",
you'd think everyone in the country was doing it.

When has there not been a crisis in the NHS? Yet it carries on, people are seen and treated all day every day. It's wonderful.

[Nearly Sane]

I didn't know about that. From what Trump said:-
"Thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U(niversal) system is going broke and not working",
you'd think everyone in the country was doing it.

When has there not been a crisis in the NHS? Yet it carries on, people are seen and treated all day every day. It's wonderful.

Anything that is always in crisis isn't wonderful

[Anchorman]

Hi everyone,

Here is a CNN article about the NHS in the UK, including Trump's views on it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/10/health/uk-nhs-universal-health-coverage-crisis-point-intl/index.html

**********

"Thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U(niversal) system is going broke and not working," President Donald Trump tweeted of the thousands who demonstrated February 3 for more money to finance the service.

British Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt soon fought back, defending the system whose budget he determines and tweeting that 28 million people in the United States "have no cover."

Prime Minister Theresa May responded that she was proud of Britain's health service.

Compared with the complexities of obtaining and being eligible for insurance, the idea of a national health service is indeed simple -- to its users. For those financing it, not so much.

NHS funding is one of the most hotly contested issues in British politics, with all parties wanting to know how to maintain universal access to care at a time of rising costs and demand. The system seems to be splitting at its seams. Is it broken?

......, the UK is one of the lowest health care spenders among developed G7 countries. The US government and its citizens spent 17.2% of GDP on health care in 2017.

But this winter, thousands of non-emergency procedures were canceled and a strained system was put in the spotlight amid a flu outbreak that pushed the health service to its limit. Despite planning for a surge in cases, routine procedures were canceled to free up beds, yet emergency rooms were still overwhelmed with tens of thousands of people each day.

In January alone, 2 million people went to emergency rooms in England, with more than a quarter of them admitted, and 15% of them waited longer than four hours to be seen. The NHS goal is for under 5% of people to wait longer than four hours.

Patients are dying in hallways while they wait for beds, senior emergency room doctors told CNN in an earlier report.

***********

Cheers.

Sriram

   



But there has never actually been a "UK health service" for the numpty in the White House to moan about.
Technically, the NHS England and Wales and NHS Scotland have been separate entities since their very foundation in 1947.
Their organisiational structures were created differently, and have diverged over the years - and with the advent of devolution in 1999, even more so.

[Harrowby Hall]

Sriram

The NHS is regarded by almost every single person in the UK as - perhaps - the best reason for living in this country. It is one of the defining aspects of living in this country. When you were briefly in this country (a year or two ago?) had you fallen ill you would have been given appropriate treatment immediately with no questions being asked. (Perhaps later, questions might be asked about your insured status and ability to pay etc.) That is the expectation - and experience - of every citizen of the UK, from cradle to grave.

The potential quality of treatment - from practitioners who are as well trained as any in the world - is world class.

The problems the NHS face come from the way it is funded - from direct taxation. The present government believes that "government" can be conducted at less cost because, being government, it is not efficient. Therefore its activities, including the delivery of health care can always be done more efficiently. The simplistic  administrative mind equates efficiency with less cost and, in consequence, the rise in demand for heathcare services brought about by an aging population (better treatments, more effective drugs, scientific advances, lower rates of smoking, improved lifestyles and so on) is not matched by a corresponding rise in money available for healthcare. Same services at a lower cost is the administrations definition of efficiency.

One device for doing this has been the setting of operational targets. So, performance standards clinicians are expected to reach are published and failure to reach these standards is publicised - to shame institutions which do not reach them into trying harder. One of the perennial problems with these standards is that they involve targets that are easy to measure but which tell you nothing about organisational effectiveness.

The bullying of health care professionals into "working harder" rather than providing more resources was the primary reason for the demonstrations which caused Trump to tweet out of his arse.

The present Conservative administration comes from a tradition which apparently holds to the belief that taxation is not a good thing. (It frequently derides the Labour Party for - when in government - "taxing and spending"). It would see increasing taxation to improve health services as some kind of moral failure. Its preferred solution is most likely to involve private sector interests which it believes to be inherently more efficient than the public sector. The likelihood is that the NHS is being privatised by stealth.

The case for the privatisation of public services is, of course self-evident. Its manifest success can be seen in the triumphant achievements of Stagecoach/Virgin on the East Coast Main Line, the Private Finance Initiative to fund hospital and other public sector building projects, and most wonderfully of all in the towering success of Carillion.

[Rhiannon]

We live in the IK. We can see what is happening to our health service. We don't need an American report to tell us.

[Robbie]

Trump is telling his fellow Americans that our NHS is awful, painting the worst possible picture, to put them off wanting an NHS of their own. Many will believe what he says. If they came here, they'd realise how good it is even with flaws.

[jeremyp]

I have never used the NHS and know nothing about it. I thought you people on here may have something to discuss about it, it being your primary health service! There seems o be a crisis of some sort....and even Trump has commented. The article raises some issues.

The NHS is always chronically underfunded. The government seems to want to make changes that everybody else thinks are a bad idea.

However, Donald Trump is using the march for domestic political ends. He is trying to claim that a health system that is cheaper per head than the US one, has better outcomes even at the price  and leaves nobody without healthcare is broken. He's a lying shit.

[Aruntraveller]

The NHS is always chronically underfunded. The government seems to want to make changes that everybody else thinks are a bad idea.

However, Donald Trump is using the march for domestic political ends. He is trying to claim that a health system that is cheaper per head than the US one, has better outcomes even at the price  and leaves nobody without healthcare is broken. He's a lying shit.

Wot he said.

[Robbie]

Ditto