Re: Benefits Fraud

[Robbie]

So not all. And if it isn't a principle, how much is too much?

I have no idea. Maybe you have an idea of how much & will share it, so we can think more about it. Of course there are some rich people who are greedy and companies who know all the dodges but that's different to someone who finds it hard to make ends meet and welcomes a little extra cash.
Like wigginhall, I would not snitch on them anyway. The idea of snooping into the private business of others is abhorrent to me, I'm happy to leave it to income tax officials.

Doesn't apply to me, eg I don't design websites, do hair, fix cars or washing machines & don't need extra income. I'm paid a salary from which tax is deducted, from that point of view life is simple for which I'm grateful. However I'm well aware it's less simple for others.

[Nearly Sane]

I have no idea. Maybe you have an idea of how much & will share it, so we can think more about it. Of course there are some rich people who are greedy and companies who know all the dodges but that's different to someone who finds it hard to make ends meet and welcomes a little extra cash.
Like wigginhall, I would not snitch on them anyway. The idea of snooping into the private business of others is abhorrent to me, I'm happy to leave it to income tax officials.

Doesn't apply to me, eg I don't design websites, do hair, fix cars or washing machines & don't need extra income. I'm paid a salary from which tax is deducted, from that point of view life is simple for which I'm grateful. However I'm well aware it's less simple for others.

Why is it different?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

That says it all!

Yes it means that I have empathy with people who sometimes have to work outside the law so as to feed themselves. Have you ever read Les Miserables?

[Robbie]

Exactly, Humph. People who would not operate outside the law if their income was better. There but for the grace, etc.

[Rhiannon]

If you knew one of your neighbours was a murderer or a paedophile would you still keep quiet? People who are benefit fraudsters, or tax evaders do this country no good at all.

Christ.

Ok, leaving aside your totally bizarre comparison, I’ll ask again: how can you be sure someone was claiming fraudulently?

And what percentage of benefits do you think is claimed by benefit frauds?

[Rhiannon]

That's a good question, as local builders take cash frequently, and they are not poor men, as far as I can see.   I still would not grass on them.

Agree, I don’t think I break the law but I don’t think I’m so perfect I can dump others in the shit. What if they lose their house? Their spouse?

[Rhiannon]

And I need to say that we are talking very different things here. A tradesperson asking for cash in hand is almost certainly pulling a fast one. How can anyone tell that a benefit claimant is doing so fraudulently?

[Rhiannon]

I wouldn't have many friends or family left if I grassed on all the law breakers!   But I was brought up in a strong non-grass culture, except for major stuff obviously.   I remember when a ton of my friends would slope off to the park to take acid, highly illegal.

I too came from a non-grass culture but that then became an excuse to protect bullies, sexual harassers, domestic abusers etc. I guess the question people should ask is whether someone/people will be protected if Person X gets grassed up. In the case of claiming benefit it seems to me that a person/people could be placed at risk, through not having money for food or fuel while the allegation is investigated for example.

[Nearly Sane]

And I need to say that we are talking very different things here. A tradesperson asking for cash in hand is almost certainly pulling a fast one. How can anyone tell that a benefit claimant is doing so fraudulently?

and of course if you pay them you are participating.

[Nearly Sane]

I too came from a non-grass culture but that then became an excuse to protect bullies, sexual harassers, domestic abusers etc. I guess the question people should ask is whether someone/people will be protected if Person X gets grassed up. In the case of claiming benefit it seems to me that a person/people could be placed at risk, through not having money for food or fuel while the allegation is investigated for example.

Yes,it's easy to forget what such an attitude has covered.

[Aruntraveller]

IIRC the amount of benefit fraud that takes place is miniscule as compared to the amount of tax fraud and yet many more resources are put into detecting the former rather than the latter.

It speaks volumes for the attitudes of those that supposedly govern us.

[Rhiannon]

Yes,it's easy to forget what such an attitude has covered.

As far as I’m concerned it’s a case of trying to do ‘less harm’. It’s harmful not to speak up when you know there’s abuse. Grassing a suspected benefit fraud...no, the risks of doing harm are way too high.

[Nearly Sane]

As far as I’m concerned it’s a case of trying to do ‘less harm’. It’s harmful not to speak up when you know there’s abuse. Grassing a suspected benefit fraud...no, the risks of doing harm are way too high.

Yes, that makes sense to me.

[floo]

I hope I never have to out anyone, I am not aware of any tax dodgers or benefit fraudsters among the people with whom I am acquainted.

[Rhiannon]

I hope I never have to out anyone, I am not aware of any tax dodgers or benefit fraudsters among the people with whom I am acquainted.

What level of evidence do you require to ‘out’ a benefit fraud? If you knew someone claimed disability benefit for example, and you saw them on the beach or knew they sold wooden toys that they made on eBay sometimes, would that be enough?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/01/spy-on-your-neighbour-britain-demonisation-benefit-claimants-disabled-people

[Rhiannon]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/false-benefit-fraud-allegations

[jeremyp]

I reckon some of my neighbours are in the black economy, i.e. taking cash for various services, and avoiding tax, but there is no way in hell that I would shop them.   I could not look them in the eye again.

Yes, that's why I can't look Jimmy Carr in the eye.

[jeremyp]

So basically you will snitch on anybody who you think breaks your own rules?

It's not just her rules, to be fair.

I'm conflicted on this one, because Floo is technically right, but I would almost certainly turn a blind eye if somebody I knew was doing it.

[floo]

I am feeling a little miffed that I have been made out to be the bad person for doing what I consider morally right. I would only inform the powers that be if I knew for sure someone was doing something criminal.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I am feeling a little miffed that I have been made out to be the bad person for doing what I consider morally right. I would only inform the powers that be if I knew for sure someone was doing something criminal.

I mentioned Les Miserables above, you should go and see it, not many in the audience cheer on Inspector Javert.

[floo]

I mentioned Les Miserables above, you should go and see it, not many in the audience cheer on Inspector Javert.

YAWN!

[Nearly Sane]

YAWN!

The point is though that when you said you wouldn't have shopped two gay men before homosexual sex was legal, some see someone making enough money to feed their family as ok even if it is against the law. It's simply a disagreement of what law breaking you are willing to turn a blind eye to.

[floo]

Cheating the benefits system is a crime, homosexuality is no more a crime than being left-handed.

[Nearly Sane]

Cheating the benefits system is a crime, homosexuality is no more a crime than being left-handed.

But it was a crime, and you have stated that you wouldn't have reported it when it was,

[Rhiannon]

I am feeling a little miffed that I have been made out to be the bad person for doing what I consider morally right. I would only inform the powers that be if I knew for sure someone was doing something criminal.

I dislike your morality on this issue. I view it as harmful to society.