Christians who don't make my skin crawl!

[SteveH]

no , I don't think I will . And don't tell me what to do !

I didn't tell you, I asked you; and if you don't give justification for your posts, you can't expect to be taken seriously.

[Robbie]

I don't donate to the Salvation army - my problem is that they are a multi-faceted organisations and I cannot be sure that the money I donate is going to the elements I think to be valuable (e.g. direct support for homeless people), rather than those I'd rather choose not to support (funding religious worship) and those I actively oppose (proselytising within the context of charitable activities, campaigning against gay rights etc).

Further the organisation is institutionally homophobic - openly stating that is opposes same sex relationships and bans people in gay relationships from being members. I wont support an organisation that doesn't recognise equality on the basis of gender, sexuality or race.

Finally, the availability of alternatives (i.e. other secular charities involved in the same kind of charitable work) means there is no reason to support Salvation Army. And as these secular alternatives are not multi-faceted I can be much more confident that a £ donated to them will result in £ spent on the charitable activity or admin and fund-raising to support that charitable activity. I have no idea how much of a £ donated to Salvation Army will go on charitable activity and how much on the provision of religious worship, campaigning on other topics (using anti-equality) or proselytising.

I don't agree with you Prof, the SA are not homophobic & the SA do not proselytise people they help - however we are all free to donate or not to any organisation so fair enough.

Steve please reply to this post of Prof's, he's saying you're refusing to. i think you just haven't seen it, I only just saw it.

Walter, you are quite rude & dismissive today.

then you and many others would be wrong . In fact so wrong the explanation as to why would be wasted on you . So I won't bother

[SteveH]

I don't agree with you Prof, the SA are not homophobic & the SA do not proselytise people they help - however we are all free to donate or not to any organisation so fair enough.

Sprocket please reply to this post of Prof's, he's saying you're refusing to. i think you just haven't seen it, I only just saw it.

OK.
I disagree with the SA's stance on homosexuality, but they are an evangelical set-up, so it's hardly surprising. I can live with it, given the good work they do. It is true that donations go to the SA as a whole - that is a basic principle of the SA, because they see evangelism and social care as all part of one mission. They were criticised in the 80s for not making that clear, but I think they do now. They get a smidgen every week from me, via payroll giving, but of course there are any number of other charities and good causes to donate to.

[SweetPea]

Robbie....

Sprocket please reply to this post of Prof's, he's saying you're refusing to. i think you just haven't seen it, I only just saw it.

Who is 'Sprocket'?

[Robbie]

My mistake, sorry, I meant SteveH. He did call himself that at one time and Peasemold something.

[SweetPea]

Oh, ok. I couldn't remember a Sprocket on this forum.

[SteveH]

Robbie....

Who is 'Sprocket'?

Me. I've only just noticed that Robbie called me that. Is it a name I've used on here before, or do I know Robbie from elsewhere? (I use "Sprocket" in various places online, because of my fondness for cycling.)

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't agree with you Prof, the SA are not homophobic & the SA do not proselytise people they help - however we are all free to donate or not to any organisation so fair enough.

It depends on your definition of homophobic - in my world if you systematically as an institution treat individuals less favourably on the basis of their sexuality then you are homophobic - and the SA does.

Regarding proselytising - well there have well publicised issues and do you know what, I wouldn't want to take the risk. Why donate to an organisation where this is a possibility, rather than a secular one where it isn't an issue.

And besides if you want to help the homeless and vulnerable, why donate to an organisation that spends just 22p in every £1 donated on such activities, rather than, say Crisis who spend 62p for every £1 donated on helping vulnerable people.

You are right, we can all make choices, but they should be based on facts about organisations. I suspect many casual donors to the SA would be pretty shocked to find that only 22p in £1 goes on helping vulnerable people, which just about the same amount simply used to run their church, worship and evangelical activities.

[Robbie]

OK.
I disagree with the SA's stance on homosexuality, but they are an evangelical set-up, so it's hardly surprising. I can live with it, given the good work they do. It is true that donations go to the SA as a whole - that is a basic principle of the SA, because they see evangelism and social care as all part of one mission. They were criticised in the 80s for not making that clear, but I think they do now. They get a smidgen every week from me, via payroll giving, but of course there are any number of other charities and good causes to donate to.

I too disagree with the SA views on homosexual relationships but they don't discriminate at all, it's more about what they permit amongst themselves. That could change in the future. No way are they homophobic. I don't donate regularly, usually bung them something around Christmas but had too many things on my mind & to do last Christmas. The mention on this thread brought them to mind & I sent a belated donation last night.

[floo]

Oh, ok. I couldn't remember a Sprocket on this forum.

A poster from another forum. I didn't realise Robbie posted on that one too.

[SteveH]

A poster from another forum. I didn't realise Robbie posted on that one too.

I think I used to be "Sprocket" on here as well.

[floo]

I think I used to be "Sprocket" on here as well.

I don't remember that, but you could be right.

[Walter]

I don't agree with you Prof, the SA are not homophobic & the SA do not proselytise people they help - however we are all free to donate or not to any organisation so fair enough.

Steve please reply to this post of Prof's, he's saying you're refusing to. i think you just haven't seen it, I only just saw it.

Walter, you are quite rude & dismissive today.

Hi Robbie
I have an image to maintain you know

[Walter]

I didn't tell you, I asked you; and if you don't give justification for your posts, you can't expect to be taken seriously.

you're at it again with your smugness , don't tell me what I can or can't expect .

[ProfessorDavey]

I too disagree with the SA views on homosexual relationships but they don't discriminate at all ...

Yes they do.

If you are a married heterosexual person you can become a member of the SA, if you are married homosexual person you are banned from becoming a member. That is the most obvious direct discrimination you can get.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't donate regularly, usually bung them something around Christmas but had too many things on my mind & to do last Christmas. The mention on this thread brought them to mind & I sent a belated donation last night.

Are you comfortable that just 22% of that donation will go to work helping vulnerable. Don't you think your money would be better donated to an organisation that once the costs of fundraising are taken into account spends pretty well 100% of the remained on helping vulnerable people. For example Crisis, who spend 62% of the money they raise on helping vulnerable people.

[Robbie]

Yes they do.

If you are a married heterosexual person you can become a member of the SA, if you are married homosexual person you are banned from becoming a member. That is the most obvious direct discrimination you can get.

I take your point tho'  don't call that homophobia. They are still a worthy organisation & I do know them quite well. They certainly don't warrant hatred! Nobody has to donate to them though, it's a matter of choice & there are plenty of other orgs.

Didn't know only 22% of donations went into the work. Still happy to bung them something once a year, they're not people I donate to regularly.

[ProfessorDavey]

Didn't know only 22% of donations went into the work. Still happy to bung them something once a year, they're not people I donate to regularly.

I suspect very few people who are casual donors to the SA know that either. I suspect that quite a few would be rather shocked to learn this and indeed would probably not donate if it was made clear.

The SA is almost unique amongst religious organisations (as far as I am aware) in using public donations (not donations from its actual members) to run its religious activities. So last year it cost over £40million to run their worship etc, yet they only received £19 million in donations from their members - so the rest is being funded by people like you who aren't members and probably donate thinking the majority is being used to support vulnerable people, when it isn't.

The CofE doesn't come knocking on your door to raise money to fund the cost of providing its church services, it expects its church-goers to do so. Likewise the RCC.

[SusanDoris]

you're at it again with your smugness , don't tell me what I can or can't expect .

Hmm, yes, I tend to agree. Bearing in mind that Snthetic Dave reads all post to me in an identical manner, the trying-to-tell-others-what-to-do still comes across I'd say.

[Robbie]

Rubbish.

[Robbie]

Prof D:- The CofE does come knocking on your door to raise money to fund the cost of providing its church services, it expects its church-goers to do so. Likewise the RCC.

Neither of those churches have ever sent people to knock on my door for money, in my whole life!
They take a collection in church from congregants on Sundays.

[floo]

Prof D:- The CofE does come knocking on your door to raise money to fund the cost of providing its church services, it expects its church-goers to do so. Likewise the RCC.

Neither of those churches have ever sent people to knock on my door for money, in my whole life!
They take a collection in church from congregants on Sundays.

They haven't asked us for money either. Besides which, I would never give money to anyone shaking a tin in my direction, whether on our doorstep, or in the street. You have no idea if they are genuine or thieves  pretending to be collecting for a charity.

[Walter]

Hmm, yes, I tend to agree. Bearing in mind that Snthetic Dave reads all post to me in an identical manner, the trying-to-tell-others-what-to-do still comes across I'd say.

SD thank you for your agreement

[Robbie]

Nice to have one person who agrees with you isn't it Walter?

Anyway the Heaven and Hell thread has taken off quite well,see you there.

[Robbie]

Floo, I agree with what you said earlier about door knocking with tins! Maybe in high street, charities often have a stand and leaflets but haven't seen that for a while. Certainly no churches around where I live do door knocking.

RNLI - Royal National Lifeboat Institution is a charity that I've been told uses next to nothing for administration and all staff are volunteers. A worthy cause indeed. Tho' I don't object to staff being paid, usually charity staff are not paid particularly well compared to private sector.