Author Topic: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!  (Read 72592 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #550 on: March 03, 2018, 06:10:13 PM »
Go somewhere and take any counselling you can get.

Much needed Kind regards Vald, ippy
If I went to a counsellor because I disagreed with the NSS.....I'd need counselling.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #551 on: March 03, 2018, 06:18:27 PM »
Quote
If I went to a counsellor because I disagreed with the NSS.....I'd need counselling.

In which Vladdo fails to grasp that he doesn’t disagree with the NSS at all – what he actually disagrees with is his misrepresentation of the NSS (and indeed with his misrepresentation of secularism in general).
"Don't make me come down there."

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Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #552 on: March 03, 2018, 06:32:32 PM »
Maeght,

What he means by it is the lie that secularism means "antireligious" rather than its actual meaning of anti-special privileges for the religious. The irony of that by the way is that secular societies are far better guarantors of religious freedoms than theocracies are because the latter routinely set about killing off faiths other than their own.

I'd prefer it if you let him answer please.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #553 on: March 03, 2018, 06:42:55 PM »
Maeght,

Quote
I'd prefer it if you let him answer please.

He can't.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

ippy

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #554 on: March 03, 2018, 06:56:32 PM »
Maeght,

He can't.

Seconded, that's also why I suggested he takes counselling.

Regards ippy 

jeremyp

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #555 on: March 03, 2018, 06:57:02 PM »
I'd prefer it if you let him answer please.
He's not going to. The best you'll get is some non sequitur dressed up in words he doesn't understand.
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Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #556 on: March 03, 2018, 07:00:39 PM »
I want to know what he means by what he says.

jeremyp

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #557 on: March 03, 2018, 07:04:17 PM »
I want to know what he means by what he says.
So does Vlad.

Actually, scratch that, I don't think he cares what he means.
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Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #558 on: March 03, 2018, 07:05:39 PM »
So does Vlad.

Actually, scratch that, I don't think he cares what he means.

Right.

ippy

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #559 on: March 03, 2018, 07:13:07 PM »
If I went to a counsellor because I disagreed with the NSS.....I'd need counselling.

If I were you Vlad, and thank goodness I'm not, if I had been saying the things you do about secularism and then something happened that made me realise how much I had misunderstood secularism, the unimaginable embarrassment I'm sure I would feel, but there Vlad, if the penny does eventually drop there's no need to grovel, some simple apology will do.

Unfortunately for you I've a feeling you'll never get it, it's not a case of you have a slight misunderstanding Vlad It's a gulf, you're not even close.

 

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #560 on: March 03, 2018, 07:18:43 PM »
This page reads like happy hour for New Atheists.

I have written more than enough saying what my position is and why it is. All it remains for me to say is that in the wider world the NSS campaign is recognised for what it is namely something that definitely does not require society to "snap to". I'm not against secularism I just feel there's enough.

Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #561 on: March 03, 2018, 07:24:10 PM »
This page reads like happy hour for New Atheists.

I have written more than enough saying what my position is and why it is. All it remains for me to say is that in the wider world the NSS campaign is recognised for what it is namely something that definitely does not require society to "snap to". I'm not against secularism I just feel there's enough.

Can you say what you meant by the secular ticket?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #562 on: March 03, 2018, 07:26:07 PM »
Can you say what you meant by the secular ticket?
Yes. Non religious motive, aegis, sponsorship or backing thereof.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #563 on: March 03, 2018, 07:27:02 PM »
Maeght,

Told you so. There's a word for his behaviour but we're not allowed to use it, but that's why I try not to feed him.
"Don't make me come down there."

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Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #564 on: March 03, 2018, 07:28:28 PM »
Yes. Non religious motive, aegis, sponsorship or backing thereof.

Could you out that into a sentence or two that actually makes sense please?

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #565 on: March 03, 2018, 07:29:35 PM »
Quote
Yes. Non religious motive, aegis, sponsorship or backing thereof.

In which Vladdo changes horses mid-stream from "antireligious" to "non religious" and hopes no-one notices.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Maeght

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #566 on: March 03, 2018, 11:48:58 PM »
Don't you want to prove the doubters wrong Private Fraser and give a clear, cogent explanation of your position?

ippy

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #567 on: March 04, 2018, 12:26:55 AM »
As a matter of interest Vlad, when in the public sphere should religion always be put on to the front foot or should secularism always be on the front foot, or should everone be equally represented? I e., no privilleges for anyone?

The answer seems obvious to me.

Regards ippy
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 12:30:09 AM by ippy »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #568 on: March 04, 2018, 08:48:45 AM »
As a matter of interest Vlad, when in the public sphere should religion always be put on to the front foot or should secularism always be on the front foot, or should everone be equally represented? I e., no privilleges for anyone?

The answer seems obvious to me.

Regards ippy
If there were no privileges for anyone then in anything there would be 50% secular involvement and 50% religious involvement.

Gordon

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #569 on: March 04, 2018, 08:52:12 AM »
If there were no privileges for anyone then in anything there would be 50% secular involvement and 50% religious involvement.

That seems like a false dichotomy, Vlad.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #570 on: March 04, 2018, 09:05:00 AM »
That seems like a false dichotomy, Vlad.
Only a seems Gordon? Sounds like you are making progress.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #571 on: March 04, 2018, 09:08:26 AM »
As a matter of interest Vlad, when in the public sphere should religion always be put on to the front foot or should secularism always be on the front foot, or should everone be equally represented? I e., no privilleges for anyone?

The answer seems obvious to me.

Regards ippy
The humanists UK campaign have stated that once any religious involvement was removed they would be satisfied with the education system. Of course they would since the secular would be 100% privileged.

Humanist UK do acknowledge that they could found their own schools.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #572 on: March 04, 2018, 09:27:26 AM »
Don't you want to prove the doubters wrong Private Fraser and give a clear, cogent explanation of your position?
1. The secular religious divide in the House of Lords is recognised in its official title which includes the Lords temporal or secular Lords and the Lords spiritual.
2. The current division is 96.7% secular lords to3.3% Bishops.
3. The notion of religion being somehow privileged above the secular here does not stack up
4. In terms of schools Humanist UK and NSS have right to found schools
5. Many schools are church foundations
6. The church has therefore no privilege in the right to found schools.
7. Objective teaching of religion already exists in schools
8. Any further religious obligation is on all schools and is not necessarily interpreted by the religious.
9. The NSS is unreliable in its descriptions concerning religious broadcasting which is minimal and unreflective of the number of religious licence payers or the BBC mission to inform and entertain.
10. The wider secular world considers NSS and humanist U.K. Unreasonable in some respects concerning the presence of religion in society and takes no action or action to equalise by providing rights to secularists rather than indulging the secularists tendency to demand elimination. Vis allowing them to found state schools or free schools.

Gordon

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #573 on: March 04, 2018, 09:30:57 AM »
Only a seems Gordon? Sounds like you are making progress.

'Seems', Vlad, because I'm not clear on how you've arrived at these percentages, and since I'm struggling to understand why 'religion' gets 50% since here in Scotland that would be over-representation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40467084

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Christians who don't make my skin crawl!
« Reply #574 on: March 04, 2018, 09:46:02 AM »
'Seems', Vlad, because I'm not clear on how you've arrived at these percentages, and since I'm struggling to understand why 'religion' gets 50% since here in Scotland that would be over-representation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40467084
I was just responding to Ippy's request for equal representation.

Yours is a representation per head model.

Applied to the House of Lords that makes

96.7% lords temporal
3.3% lords spiritual