Driving Instructors

[Robbie]

I didn't think it was my fault but at same time thought I'd been stupid. I'm sure you know how I felt. A couple of girls I told about it afterwards were so unsympathetic! That didn't help, wished I'd said nothing. I did eventually tell my mum and she impressed on me in no uncertain terms that I was not to blame, it was the fault of the other person who wanted to take what was not freely given. Couldn't do anything about it, an 'open' party, only knew the guy's first name, never saw him before and (thankfully) not since. Anyway I moved on, it didn't ruin my life.

[Rhiannon]

I didn't think it was my fault but at same time thought I'd been stupid. I'm sure you know how I felt. A couple of girls I told about it afterwards were so unsympathetic! That didn't help, wished I'd said nothing. I did eventually tell my mum and she impressed on me in no uncertain terms that I was not to blame, it was the fault of the other person who wanted to take what was not freely given. Couldn't do anything about it, an 'open' party, only knew the guy's first name, never saw him before and (thankfully) not since. Anyway I moved on, it didn't ruin my life.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean, we know where blame lies but still use words like ‘stupid’ to describe ourselves. I didn’t tell my mum, in fact I was terrified of her finding out. The recent debate around consent has been helpful for me in healing the last few scars but like you, it didn’t ruin my life. Sadly I think it is just a part of what being a woman is about, although I hope times are changing.

[Robbie]

My mother said she knew there was something wrong, she didn't think it was what it was but it was a relief to tell her and she was such a comfort. When it happened I didn't want to tell her because I felt she would tell my dad and he would try and find the chap, without success, but cause a big fuss which I didn't want to be at the centre of.

One of the girls I told about it said she thought it must be terribly difficult to rape someone and didn't believe me, virtually calling me a liar. I was withdrawn after that but a few months later she came to me and said something similar had happened to her and she was sorry, she understood. Well we were all a lot younger then. We move on but it's still there in the background, every now and then something triggers the memory.

There are plenty of nice men around who wouldn't dream of sexually assaulting anyone, thank goodness.

[floo]

Typical feminist response. A woman tries to influence a man to break his code of employment, he refuses, but it is still his fault.

Feminism is a joke.

It is you who is the joke, a very bad one. Your posts concerning women are not pleasant, I am genuinely concerned about how you behave towards them in real life.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

It is you who is the joke, a very bad one. Your posts concerning women are not pleasant, I am genuinely concerned about how you behave towards them in real life.

Floo - you keep calling people scum and are very black and white in your thinking. I would genuinely be more concerned about how you behave towards people in real life.

[floo]

Floo - you keep calling people scum and are very black and white in your thinking. I would genuinely be more concerned about how you behave towards people in real life.

It may surprise you to know I appear to be quite popular. Doesn't HWB's attitude towards women concern you?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I was raped by a man whose car I was stupid enough to get into when I was 15. When I learned to drive I decided not to put myself in a situation where a man could get me to an isolated place and do it again.

Assuming your neighbour wasn’t being tongue in cheek, trying to influence an examiner us not the same thing as being in the receiving end of unwanted sexual attention, groping and predation.

But haters gonna hate and you do it magnificently.

Extremely sorry that happened to you. I agree that being on the receiving end of unwanted sexual attention is bad, especially if it is an assault. I don’t know what it feels like to be a man receiving unwanted sexual attention - I don’t know if they feel scared if the unwanted attention is from a woman. I have been extremely lucky in not experiencing anything that made me feel genuinely scared. Uncomfortable, yes, but not outright scared.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

It may surprise you to know I appear to be quite popular. Doesn't HWB's attitude towards women concern you?

Yes i felt uncomfortable at the idea of a consensual relationship between a 17 year old pupil and a driving instructor. But that could be my tendency to be cautious about any relationships whereas my less cautious friends at 17 enjoyed their relationships with older men. One of my best friends re-sat her A-Levels at a crammer and pushed for a relationship with her tutor. I met him a few times - really nice guy, not creepy at all, good-looking, and she was happy and got good grades - she got into Bristol to do mechanical engineering. So not every instance is predatory I guess.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I didn't think it was my fault but at same time thought I'd been stupid. I'm sure you know how I felt. A couple of girls I told about it afterwards were so unsympathetic! That didn't help, wished I'd said nothing. I did eventually tell my mum and she impressed on me in no uncertain terms that I was not to blame, it was the fault of the other person who wanted to take what was not freely given. Couldn't do anything about it, an 'open' party, only knew the guy's first name, never saw him before and (thankfully) not since. Anyway I moved on, it didn't ruin my life.

Really sorry to hear that happened to you Robbie. It is just so crap that a girl can’t be safe alone with a boy because there is a possibility that she will be assaulted even though there clearly are lots of boys who would not assault a girl. The only problem is predators aren’t helpfully wearing a sign around their necks so we can identify them.

And I can’t fathom why if a girl is considerate or polite to a man, so many men think she likes them or wants to have sex with them or don’t care what she wants but he wants to have sex with her. I’m nice to lots of people I am totally ambivalent towards because it’s good manners to be nice.

My daughter is 18 and going out a lot more than when she was younger. Parties tend to have boys and alcohol unlike when she was younger, I do keep trying to impress on her before a party not to be alone with a boy and to be vigilant about having her drink spiked - it would be nice if I could just say “Have a good time”.

[floo]

Yes i felt uncomfortable at the idea of a consensual relationship between a 17 year old pupil and a driving instructor. But that could be my tendency to be cautious about any relationships whereas my less cautious friends at 17 enjoyed their relationships with older men. One of my best friends re-sat her A-Levels at a crammer and pushed for a relationship with her tutor. I met him a few times - really nice guy, not creepy at all, good-looking, and she was happy and got good grades - she got into Bristol to do mechanical engineering. So not every instance is predatory I guess.

It doesn't excuse the guy having a relationship with a student.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

It may surprise you to know I appear to be quite popular. Doesn't HWB's attitude towards women concern you?

You have written that I should be castrated & hung upside down.

I have written that I do not like feminism.

[floo]

You have written that I should be castrated & hung upside down.

I have written that I do not like feminism.

I don't like your attitude to women.

[Nearly Sane]

You have written that I should be castrated & hung upside down.

I have written that I do not like feminism.

To be fair, LR has stated that she didn't really mean that but even joking; it seemed extreme.

[floo]

To be fair, LR has stated that she didn't really mean that but even joking; it seemed extreme.

Whilst I shouldn't have made that remark, and was slapped over the knuckles for it, I think HWB's attitude to women is unpleasant and extreme.

[Nearly Sane]

Whilst I shouldn't have made that remark, and was slapped over the knuckles for it, I think HWB's attitude to women is unpleasant and extreme.

What do you think is 'extreme' in his views?

[Rhiannon]

What do you think is 'extreme' in his views?

Actually his views are depressingly common.

[Rhiannon]

Extremely sorry that happened to you. I agree that being on the receiving end of unwanted sexual attention is bad, especially if it is an assault. I don’t know what it feels like to be a man receiving unwanted sexual attention - I don’t know if they feel scared if the unwanted attention is from a woman. I have been extremely lucky in not experiencing anything that made me feel genuinely scared. Uncomfortable, yes, but not outright scared.

Thank you. I should think the biggest fear for a man getting unwanted attention from a woman would be false accusations if he doesn't respond but I don’t know. Most men are sexually assaulted by other men.

[Robbie]

My view, which may be worth nothing to anyone, is HWB gets fed up with men being castigated when most men are decent & he is therefore deliberately provocative.

Anyone teaching, tutoring or doctoring should, imo, maintain a professional distance not just for the safety of their client but for their own safety and reputation.

If genuine feelings arise they can wait until they're no longer in that professional relationship, then meet socially & take it from there. Nothing wrong with that where both parties are adult even if one is a few years older. May come to nothing or fizzle out anyway like most relationships.

(Gabriella, thank you for kind words. I was not as young as Rhiannon when that happened but still in education at the time. All in the past.)

[Nearly Sane]

Thank you. I should think the biggest fear for a man getting unwanted attention from a woman would be false accusations if he doesn't respond but I don’t know. Most men are sexually assaulted by other men.

I had missed Gabriella's comment - I don't think there is a one size fits all for how men might feel from unwanyed sexual attention from women, or men, just as I think that is true of women. It depends on the circumstances and what the relationship is.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

My view, which may be worth nothing to anyone, is HWB gets fed up with being castigated when most are decent & is therefore deliberately provocative.

Anyone teaching, tutoring or doctoring should, imo, maintain a professional distance not just for the safety of their client but for their own safety and reputation.

If genuine feelings arise they can wait until they're no longer in that professional relationship, then meet socially & take it from there. Nothing wrong with that where both parties are adult even if one is a few years older. May come to nothing or fizzle out anyway like most relationships.

(Gabriella, thank you for kind words. I was not as young as Rhiannon when that happened but still in education at the time. All in the past.)

That is coming close, although it is not the entire picture. I dislike feminism because I saw the effects of feminism as a trade union official. I can remember a staff inspection (Time & Motion's younger and prettier sibling), where the response, co ordinated by a self professed feminist, concentrated on changing "Manpower Audit" to "Workforce Audit". At the conclusion, two jobs were lost, but changing sexist language was seen as a triumph. I do also recall another feminist, who insisted on a woman lecturer at a trade union one day school, was happy to read out a lecture written by one of the males.

I am not contributing to the exchange between yourself, Rhiannon, and Gabriella, since if you find the same to be of mutual therapy, then you do not need interference from me. And of course I condemn the disgusting violations that yourself, and Rhiannon, have suffered.

[Robbie]

Understood & cool HWB.
(I made a mistake in my previous post which you quoted, left out words, will correct it now.)

[floo]

What do you think is 'extreme' in his views?

He seem to think it is ok for people in positions of authority like driving instructors, teachers and university lecturers to have sex with their pupils, even if they are only seventeen.

[Nearly Sane]

He seem to think it is ok for people in positions of authority like driving instructors, teachers and university lecturers to have sex with their pupils, even if they are only seventeen.

No, since his position on this thread was that he saw the relationship of driving instructor as different to that of teacher, you are incorrect about his position.

[Rhiannon]

That is coming close, although it is not the entire picture. I dislike feminism because I saw the effects of feminism as a trade union official. I can remember a staff inspection (Time & Motion's younger and prettier sibling), where the response, co ordinated by a self professed feminist, concentrated on changing "Manpower Audit" to "Workforce Audit". At the conclusion, two jobs were lost, but changing sexist language was seen as a triumph. I do also recall another feminist, who insisted on a woman lecturer at a trade union one day school, was happy to read out a lecture written by one of the males.

I am not contributing to the exchange between yourself, Rhiannon, and Gabriella, since if you find the same to be of mutual therapy, then you do not need interference from me. And of course I condemn the disgusting violations that yourself, and Rhiannon, have suffered.

It's not 'therapy' to talk about rape. It's just fact. The 'feminism' that you reject as a joke exists to challenge the attitudes that makes rape a routine thing for women to deal with. Think how many female posters there are here. Think of the percentage that have said ;'me too'. That should tell you why feminism is anything but a joke.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

It doesn't excuse the guy having a relationship with a student.

Thinking about it now, I think the relationship happened once she was no longer his student. I think back then you did not have to wait a whole year to re-sit A’Levels so I think she re-sat either after one term or two. She was at a private crammer and he was a young tutor.

So maybe a driving instructor can have a consensual relationship when the student is no longer their student.