Billy Graham has died

[Robbie]

Agree Anchor.  This is what he said:-

"I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ... [God] is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven."

[bluehillside Retd.]

Robbie,

Agree Anchor.  This is what he said:-

"I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ... [God] is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven."

Did he really? So the Muslims, Buddhists and atheists all have it wrong then. Funnily enough though, when I just checked my "heart" I didn't find a "need for something I do not have" at all, nor did I feel like "turning to a light" as it happens.

Did he say a lot of this palpable drivel, or was he just having an off day?     

[Robbie]

No point in me responding to someone who has left the forum so, no comment.

Night all.

[SusanDoris]

Apparently, he once was quoted  as saying he was looking forward to dying because he knew he would bne with god. Funny then, that I bet he clung on to life with every fibre until his life ended. I wonder if he was still under the same delusion at the end.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apparently, he once was quoted  as saying he was looking forward to dying because he knew he would bne with god. Funny then, that I bet he clung on to life with every fibre until his life ended

At the age of 99 that was obviously something Dr Graham was excellent at. You sound bitter.

[SusanDoris]

At the age of 99 that was obviously something Dr Graham was excellent at. You sound bitter.

Wrong. That is one emotion I never feel. It harms only the person who feels it and not the person who inflicted damage. I learnt this back in my twenties from my experience of all kinds of abuse in marriage.
In fact, I am perhaps lucky I suppose to be naturally that way - I never feel envy or jealousy either. I do not have to talk myself away from such feelings.
Also I have learnt throughout my life that those who make the sort of comment you have made are very often projecting onto the intended recipient their own feelings.

[Rhiannon]

Wrong. That is one emotion I never feel. It harms only the person who feels it and not the person who inflicted damage. I learnt this back in my twenties from my experience of all kinds of abuse in marriage.
In fact, I am perhaps lucky I suppose to be naturally that way - I never feel envy or jealousy either. I do not have to talk myself away from such feelings.
Also I have learnt throughout my life that those who make the sort of comment you have made are very often projecting onto the intended recipient their own feelings.

I’m sorry for what you went through, Susan. Yes, such experiences are very good teachers, and one thing that’s unmissable from them is the utter futility of emotions such as jealousy, bitterness and hate. And I agree entirely about projection.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Robbie,

No point in me responding to someone who has left the forum so, no comment.

Night all.

I'll take that as a, "Yes, he was having a bad day" then.

[Walter]

Robbie,

I'll take that as a, "Yes, he was having a bad day" then.

I saw him on a news clip yesterday preaching to a stadium full of people , I turned the sound off and thought how much his body language resembled that of Hitler when he was ranting to his followers .

Must be a technique thing .......or something else is going on !

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I saw him on a news clip yesterday preaching to a stadium full of people , I turned the sound off and thought how much his body language resembled that of Hitler when he was ranting to his followers .

Must be a technique thing .......or something else is going on !

God wins law?

[Walter]

God wins law?

no, most people are gullible

[Anchorman]

I saw him on a news clip yesterday preaching to a stadium full of people , I turned the sound off and thought how much his body language resembled that of Hitler when he was ranting to his followers .

Must be a technique thing .......or something else is going on !

   

Yes, there were tears at the call - lots of them.
But from someone who was at the business end, let me tell you what happened next.
Many went forward to re-dedicate themselves to Christ; that was part of the call; they renewed the bond that linked them to their Lord.
Others went forward to commit themselves for the first time - or because they were curious.
Tose of us who were counsellors talked with them, ascertained what their motives were, left contact details,gave info packs which contained details of churches of various denominations which offered to support new Christians, and left the enquirers to choose whether or not they acted on those detailes.
If they were in agreement, we'd talk about the decision they made, and we'd pray. If they wanted to leave their details, that was a personal thing; some did, some didn't.
That was it.
I'm still in contact with several of those I counselled in "Mission Scotland".

[SteveH]

NS,

Hitchens thought he was a palpable fraud, but I'm not "sure" about anything.

I think Hitchens was a huge dickhead, but that doesn't make it so.

[Aruntraveller]

I am glad some of you think  he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. For rather obvious reasons I don't. His harsh words about gay people particularly during the AIDS crisis helped to keep the door to research and funding shut that little bit more tightly. He wasnt of course the only one but he was there. A bit of an anti semite as well. Absolutely fabulous darling. Stand by his grave till you are sure he is dead.

[Enki]

I am glad some of you think  he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. For rather obvious reasons I don't. His harsh words about gay people particularly during the AIDS crisis helped to keep the door to research and funding shut that little bit more tightly. He wasnt of course the only one but he was there. A bit of an anti semite as well. Absolutely fabulous darling. Stand by his grave till you are sure he is dead.

I agree with you, Trent. There is no way that I would have been proud to have met the man. I do remember once going to an open air meeting when I was a member of a Methodist Youth Club. It was led by a preacher in the Billy Graham mould who insisted that we would be saved by Jesus if only we would come forward, and exhorted us in his strident rhetorical style to do just that. I also remember looking curiously at the small group of young people who did actually leave their seats to come forward. Even at my tender age of sixteen or so, I couldn't see the point, although, presumably, those who did  felt the need to do so. How many of those became and remained committed evangelical Christians I have no idea. But, for me, it would have been quite ludicrous and pointless to do so. Same feelings still remain with me today.

[wigginhall]

There was a clip of Graham on the news, where he perorated about all the problems that we have, and announced that we could not solve them without Christ.  I guess it was an old film, as he looked young, and I would like to ask him or his successors if those problems have been solved?  I suppose the faithful will say yes.   Great voice by the way, very like Luther King.   

[Gordon]

While driving yesterday I was listening to Radio Scotland and they played a bit of the opening spiel he gave when doing one of his crusades here in Scotland: I think it was in 1985. He said along the lines of that had been lots or prayers for a resurgence of Christianity in Scotland and he was here to kick the process off.

Look like it didn't go to plan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40467084

[Humph Warden Bennett]

While driving yesterday I was listening to Radio Scotland and they played a bit of the opening spiel he gave when doing one of his crusades here in Scotland: I think it was in 1985. He said along the lines of that had been lots or prayers for a resurgence of Christianity in Scotland and he was here to kick the process off.

Look like it didn't go to plan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40467084

Obviously a partisan contribution!

What the Scots do is up to them.

[Walter]

I am glad some of you think  he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. For rather obvious reasons I don't. His harsh words about gay people particularly during the AIDS crisis helped to keep the door to research and funding shut that little bit more tightly. He wasnt of course the only one but he was there. A bit of an anti semite as well. Absolutely fabulous darling. Stand by his grave till you are sure he is dead.

oooh fabulous Trent 

[Gordon]

Obviously a partisan contribution!

What the Scots do is up to them.

Nothing partisan about it: he came here with the stated aim of promoting the uptake of Christianity in Scotland and, as the information in the link I posted shows, he clearly failed.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Nothing partisan about it: he came here with the stated aim of promoting the uptake of Christianity in Scotland and, as the information in the link I posted shows, he clearly failed.

You don't get it, do you?

I am an Orthodox Christian, not Evangelical.

[Nearly Sane]

I am reminded of the discussion of the Salvation Army on the non skin crawling Christians thread where their discriminatory attitude is meant to balanced by them doing general good, and I think that we must accept, as is made clear in Some Like It Hot, that no-one is perfect. BUT while I can see Graham as a child of his time and can maybe forgive the homophobia, the anti women's right, the anti semitism  (which at least he apologised for), it's his actual success in promulgating those views that I have problems. If he was a small town preacher with a congregation of 14 people and twenty dogs, then it might not be an issue. Were he the drunk in a pub riffing on his thoughts, who cares. Even were he to be a poster on a quiet message board, I might not care that much but overall in what he did the very number he communicated with means the harm outweighs any good. I see no reason to mourn other than general empathy, and in this case that is not sufficent

[Walter]

You don't get it, do you?

I am an Orthodox Christian, not Evangelical.

as if its important . Regiments in the army have different cap badges, its still the army .

[Gordon]

You don't get it, do you?

I am an Orthodox Christian, not Evangelical.

The point I'm making is, quite simply, and given that this thread is specifically about Billy Graham, is that despite all the warm words about him on his demise, his stated aim was to promote Christianity in Scotland and in that regard he clearly failed.

What branch of Christianity he belonged to doesn't mask the fact that despite his attempt to promote Christianity in Scotland the opposite has occurred: it is in decline, as the link I posted (from 2017) shows.

[Nearly Sane]

You don't get it, do you?

I am an Orthodox Christian, not Evangelical.

What does your denomination have to do with whether Billy Graham failed as regards Scotland?