Novichok - fake news or Russian attack?

[Aruntraveller]

That ghastly man Farage said if people voted for Brexit it would mean there would be more money for the NHS, before recanting that statement!

To be fair to him (and believe me I don't want to be) I don't think he ever said that. It was another Brexit person that came up with that.

[Grace of God]

To be fair to him (and believe me I don't want to be) I don't think he ever said that. It was another Brexit person that came up with that.

Farage did complain about the money to the NHS being misleading, Personally I think Farage is one of the few politicians that try to do what is good for the country..

[Aruntraveller]

I'm not implying democracy produces the best results, the problem with ignoring democracy and those who would allow it to be ignored is the slippery slope it produces....

So if democracy came up with a process where religious people were deported from this country you'd go along with that as being OK, because otherwise some imaginary slippery slope may be stumbled upon? You wouldn't on that occasion wish to change democracy, to fight against it's conclusion, to make sure that that particular conclusion of democracy was never acted upon?

Well some people feel the same about leaving the EU. They regard it as a monumental act of self harm that has been accommodated by democracy. That's all. As far as I am aware we are still rushing gaderene-like towards the BREXIT exit door, so nobody is ignoring democracy.

[floo]

Farage did complain about the money to the NHS being misleading, Personally I think Farage is one of the few politicians that try to do what is good for the country..

Excuse me whilst I choke! Farage is a HYPOCRITE, he takes money from the EU whilst supporting Brexit. He is also an unpleasant racist!

[Grace of God]

So if democracy came up with a process where religious people were deported from this country you'd go along with that as being OK, because otherwise some imaginary slippery slope may be stumbled upon? You wouldn't on that occasion wish to change democracy, to fight against it's conclusion, to make sure that that particular conclusion of democracy was never acted upon?

Well some people feel the same about leaving the EU. They regard it as a monumental act of self harm that has been accommodated by democracy. That's all. As far as I am aware we are still rushing gaderene-like towards the BREXIT exit door, so nobody is ignoring democracy.

It practically has, unless you are muslim..lol
democracy is what it is, if the vote went that way it should be actioned, if we begin to rethink democracy anything can be changed by someone capable of manipulation and that to me is a very dangerous place..

But the majority do not feel that way about the EU... and now with all the twists and attempts to block all we are ding is causing a greater divide...

If we had voted to remain would anything have held it up or questioned it, I doubt it very much...

[Aruntraveller]

If we had voted to remain would anything have held it up or questioned it, I doubt it very much...

Irrelevant really, if we'd voted to remain there would not have been any need for negotiations, etc. We would just have carried on.

[Grace of God]

Irrelevant really, if we'd voted to remain there would not have been any need for negotiations, etc. We would just have carried on.

It's irrelevant to you because you do not like the decision, part of democracy is accepting that the decision did not go your way but make the best of it...
elections have been won on a fraction of the turnout of Brexit, no one has ever argued they only just won...

[Aruntraveller]

It's irrelevant to you because you do not like the decision, part of democracy is accepting that the decision did not go your way but make the best of it...
elections have been won on a fraction of the turnout of Brexit, no one has ever argued they only just won...

Did you read my post at all?

[Nearly Sane]

it seems the nerve agent is so lethal and the photo's show firemen stood around with no protective gear on...

Brexit is a disaster?? you seem to have a problem with democracy...

Getting back on topic here, I agree that there are questions about what the narrative here but it seems to me an unjustified leap to believe that there either was no attack, or that it was someone in the UK doing it to stay in the EU.

[ippy]

Yes. Is this any different to US drone strikes on foreign soil? Innocent bystanders were killed then too as part of the usual collateral damage that occurs in political manouverings to protect national interests.

I doubt this chap and his daughter deliberatly mixed with innocent bystanders hoping to take some of them with them if anything happens, purely for a propaganda purposes in the same way as those islamist extremests do.

Regards ippy

[Spud]

I'm still unsure whether Britain should assume Russia to be responsible for the attack. Boris said on Sunday that there is evidence Russia has been stockpiling novichoc over the last 10 years for use in assassinations. He said it very convincingly, but still we haven't been told what that evidence is. Are we supposed to take his word for it?
Also it is strange that the attack happened 8 miles from Porton Down; could that be the source of the nerve agent?

[Rhiannon]

I'm still unsure whether Britain should assume Russia to be responsible for the attack. Boris said on Sunday that there is evidence Russia has been stockpiling novichoc over the last 10 years for use in assassinations. He said it very convincingly, but still we haven't been told what that evidence is. Are we supposed to take his word for it?
Also it is strange that the attack happened 8 miles from Porton Down; could that be the source of the nerve agent?

No.

Boris (which autocorrect just tried to make into Virus) is a nob who spouts populist drivel. But Russia has form for this kind of thing and this has the hallmarks of an assassination, although I don’t see that we can know for sure whether it was state sanctioned. To think this is anything to do with Porton Down strikes me as tin hat territory though.

[SteveH]

Brexit is a disaster?? you seem to have a problem with democracy...

You seem to have a problem with understanding democracy. In a democracy, one accepts the result of a vote for the time being, but is under no obligation to like it. I think Brexit is a disaster, and a triumph for all the petty-racist little-Englanders in UKRAP, but I accept, grudgingly, that the vote went their way (just). That doesn't mean that we can't have another referendum before the deal is finalised - after all, we don't have one general election and then let the party that wins be in power for evermore. I'm sure you agree, as a believer in democracy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's irrelevant to you because you do not like the decision, part of democracy is accepting that the decision did not go your way but make the best of it...
elections have been won on a fraction of the turnout of Brexit, no one has ever argued they only just won...

Grace

I may be wrong but it seems like there was and is a strand of evangelicals and old nominals who back Brexit.

I never received such a call. Perhaps you can enlighten us on how Brexit moves both the United Kingdom  and the Kingdom on.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Farage did complain about the money to the NHS being misleading, Personally I think Farage is one of the few politicians that try to do what is good for the country..

Why?

[SteveH]

Why?

Because GoG is obviously a pretty extreme right-wing kipper. (He also appears to have left - perhaps he decided we're all a bunch of commies and infidels.)

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Because GoG is obviously a pretty extreme right-wing kipper. (He also appears to have left - perhaps he decided we're all a bunch od commies and infidels.)

Yes I think we are probably back to a basic inability and reluctance to articulate what it is that made people put an X next to leave or whatever.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I doubt this chap and his daughter deliberatly mixed with innocent bystanders hoping to take some of them with them if anything happens, purely for a propaganda purposes in the same way as those islamist extremests do.

Regards ippy

Yes, would be simpler for the rest of us if governments publish their monthly kill lists, and people on the list promptly travel to a designated killing zone far from normal public life by the last Friday of every month and one missile could take them all out - the costs of the kill and subsequent body parts disposal could be shared amongst the various governments. Explosive munitions and nerve agents aren't exactly known for their precision so using them in public places does pose an obvious risk.

The spies and terrorists could also publish their own list of hits who could arrive promptly for their execution in a remote area. Probably need to look into how that would affect our economy - might be a fall in arms sales and general spending by people profiteering from international conflicts.

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43588450

The daughter of the ex Russian spy is improving, which is good news. 

[Nearly Sane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43588450

The daughter of the ex Russian spy is improving, which is good news. 

Is it 'real' news though?

[floo]

Is it 'real' news though?

What makes you think it isn't?

[Nearly Sane]

What makes you think it isn't?

I don't. Questioning whether something is correct doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it to be wrong. Given thee murkiness surrounding thrvwhile affair, I think it valid to be wary of all statements about it.

[floo]

I don't. Questioning whether something is correct doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it to be wrong. Given thee murkiness surrounding thrvwhile affair, I think it valid to be wary of all statements about it.

Somehow I doubt they would state she was making a recovery if she wasn't, whatever one thinks about the origin of the nerve agent.

[Spud]

This morning's Express says police are 'closing in on the Russian gangs behind the attack'. So they think it was the work of criminals after all? Interesting interview with an acquaintance of Mr Scripal here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-43343805/russian-exile-skripal-targeted-by-criminal-gangs

[SteveH]

Somehow I doubt they would state she was making a recovery if she wasn't, whatever one thinks about the origin of the nerve agent.

Quite. You can take scepticism too far you know. (OMG! I've agreed with LR! )